# Is Artificially Weakening/Destroying a Hurricane Possible, Even In Theory? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 15, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415 "2017-09-15T18:15:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/21 "2017-09-16T20:04:33Z")
Speaking of which… I suppose that, on a small scale, we already do divert hurricanes, all the time. Any sufficiently-strong and sufficiently-watertight building in Houston or Florida diverted the hurricane away from the region immediately inside the walls of the building. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/22 "2017-09-17T15:29:18Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Use a bunch of mega fans on mega boats to introduce some wind shear. > > [https://www.wunderground.com/education/shear.asp](https://www.wunderground.com/education/shear.asp) According to [NOAA](http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/D7.html), just for the horizontal winds, a typical hurricane is generating the equivalent of about half the worlds’ electrical generating capacity. If you take into account the whole storm system (most of which is spent in lifting up water and letting it fall) the storm is generating _200_ times the world-wide electrical generating capacity. Just how many ships to you propose in your mega-fleet and how to you propose turning those mega-fans? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/23 "2017-09-17T15:46:21Z")
Yeah … the factors that initiate hurricanes are the large-scale convective circulation and the Earth’s rotation, over an area the size of Missouri (or larger) … even these mega-fans will be spawning vortices and unless they’re tuned perfectly to counteract cyclonic motion, the hurricanes are going to form anyway … even the smallest of spin in a saturated atmosphere can produce a cyclone … ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/24 "2017-09-17T15:49:50Z")
Pumping cold water from several hundred feet below the oceans surface to the surface has been studied as a way to weaken hurricanes. Don’t know if it has ever been done in practice. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/25 "2017-09-17T20:19:51Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > According to [NOAA](http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/D7.html), just for the horizontal winds, a typical hurricane is generating the equivalent of about half the worlds’ electrical generating capacity. If you take into account the whole storm system (most of which is spent in lifting up water and letting it fall) the storm is generating _200_ times the world-wide electrical generating capacity. > > Just how many ships to you propose in your mega-fleet and how to you propose turning those mega-fans? I’m not proposing anything! The OP asked “Ok but how [in theory]?” I assume in any world in which this is even remotely possible beyond theory we would have the ability to produce energy orders of magnitude more than we currently can. ---
**Author:** ![KlondikeGeoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@KlondikeGeoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KlondikeGeoff)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/26 "2017-09-17T20:38:08Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Use a bunch of mega fans on mega boats to introduce some wind shear. > > [https://www.wunderground.com/education/shear.asp](https://www.wunderground.com/education/shear.asp) Right. Blow those suckers back to Europe for a change. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/27 "2017-09-17T20:47:56Z")
If one was a magical godlike being, one could simply drop a mega large arctic airmass in front of it, dry the air, drop the temp, cool the water. Hurricane would hit that and run out of energy I’m fresh out of godlike friendly beings though. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/28 "2017-09-18T13:17:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In theory? Sure. But it would require manipulation of energies on a scale many orders of magnitude greater than what we’re currently capable of. Yes to be sure to influence it, in a definite “because we did this, we changes the hurricane”… that would take enormous energies with dramatic requirements and sideeffects… But its not impossible in a theoretical , academic sense… The butterfly effect … well you know, if a butterfly flaps its wings, its redirected next years hurricane. Its not proveable that any one butterfly wing flap… so its a bit of a very very very rare Schrodingers butterfly wing… More than 99.99999999999999999999999999 % of wing flaps have no such effect. But just as the status of schrodingers cat is not known, its not known about the status of any particular butterfly wing action wrt hurricane redirections. No one ever proposed actually controlling butterfly wing flaps, the lesson was that the chaotic patterns occur _despite_ the randomness of the inputs. It might seem like white noise, but there can be patterns. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/29 "2017-09-18T14:36:11Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Pumping cold water from several hundred feet below the oceans surface to the surface has been studied as a way to weaken hurricanes. Don’t know if it has ever been done in practice. The inverse of this is taking the warm surface water that energizes hurricanes and pumping it down to the depths. [http://freakonomics.com/2012/11/06/another-look-at-an-unorthodox-hurricane-prevention-idea/](http://freakonomics.com/2012/11/06/another-look-at-an-unorthodox-hurricane-prevention-idea/) The proposal is for large-diameter ducts suspended from the ocean surface and extending a few hundred feet straight down. Surface waves slosh warm water over the perimeter into the top end of the tube, driving water already in the tube downward. The plan would require flotillas of thousands of these things in hurricane formation areas, but they’d be completely passive, and so the cost might be tolerable. No solar cells, no pumps/motors, nothing, just natural waves to drive water into them. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/30 "2017-09-18T15:56:03Z")
If these tubes were each 1 m[sup]2[/sup], 10,000 would only cover an area 100 m x 100 m … the area in the Atlantic where hurricanes form is roughly 4 trillion square meters … at a minimum we’d need 100 billion of these tubes … at a thousand dollars each I’m not sure the cost is worth it, cheaper to rebuild the damage caused by the hurricanes … That’s assuming this works, the warm water coming out the bottom would just rise back to the surface … at first this would work, but eventually the heat energy would build up and make the project a wash … or perhaps make the problem worse … ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/31 "2017-09-18T16:28:28Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > If these tubes were each 1 m[sup]2[/sup], 10,000 would only cover an area 100 m x 100 m … the area in the Atlantic where hurricanes form is roughly 4 trillion square meters … at a minimum we’d need 100 billion of these tubes … at a thousand dollars each I’m not sure the cost is worth it, cheaper to rebuild the damage caused by the hurricanes … > > That’s assuming this works, the warm water coming out the bottom would just rise back to the surface … at first this would work, but eventually the heat energy would build up and make the project a wash … or perhaps make the problem worse … Don’t know how many tubes you’d need. You don’t necessarily need to completely cover the entire hurricane nursery; you just need enough tubes to reduce the surface temperature by a meaningful amount. Each tube is pumping warm water downward non-stop, assuming perpetual wave activity. It’s not just eliminating the warm water that you enclosed at its top when you assembled it, the waves cause it to continuously gather warm surface water from the area upwind of it. Presumably the more tubes you have, the greater the surface temperature drop, and the less severe/frequent the hurricanes become. The warm water pumped to depth wouldn’t simply rise back up, at least not before mixing with/entraining the cooler water that was already at that depth. ---
**Author:** ![tallcoldone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@tallcoldone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tallcoldone)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/32 "2017-09-18T16:30:35Z")
How about diapers to soak up all the moisture? OK, not diapers, but how about the superabsorbent polymer that’s used in disposable diapers? It’s patented! [https://www.google.com/patents/US6315213?dq=6,315,213&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSqbWGk6\_WAhWqsFQKHbidDq0Q6AEIKDAA](https://www.google.com/patents/US6315213?dq=6,315,213&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSqbWGk6_WAhWqsFQKHbidDq0Q6AEIKDAA) ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/33 "2017-09-18T16:45:44Z")
How about releasing lots of air-filled balloons, enough to cover up a non-trivial fraction of the ocean’s surface? Like the [shade balls](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shade_balls) used on some reservoirs to reduce evaporation. Aluminized mylar balloons perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/34 "2017-09-18T17:45:26Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Don’t know how many tubes you’d need. You don’t necessarily need to completely cover the entire hurricane nursery; you just need enough tubes to reduce the surface temperature by a meaningful amount. Each tube is pumping warm water downward non-stop, assuming perpetual wave activity. It’s not just eliminating the warm water that you enclosed at its top when you assembled it, the waves cause it to continuously gather warm surface water from the area upwind of it. Presumably the more tubes you have, the greater the surface temperature drop, and the less severe/frequent the hurricanes become. > > The warm water pumped to depth wouldn’t simply rise back up, at least not before mixing with/entraining the cooler water that was already at that depth. The 100 billion tubes is only covering 2.5% of the area … we would also need perpetual _big_ wave activity, the types of waves generated by tropical cyclones; or we’ll won’t be moving very much water downward … this all depends on warm water sloshing over the top rim of the tube during times of high pressure ridging, so we need to keep this rims much closer to the water level, and thus not much water per slosh … this would work better during low pressure troughs, but then it’s too late, we need to have the water cooled down _before_ the trough passes by, or a hurricane will spin up … The mixture of warm water and cold water will still be buoyant in cold water … of course at first this will cool the surface, but eventually the entire water column’s temperature will rise … without the hurricanes to remove the heat energy from the water, it will build up until we reach the temperature threshold for hurricane development … except now the warm water is much deeper, and this seems to increase the magnitude of the hurricanes … Thousands won’t do a thing, looks like even millions won’t either … using billions just isn’t cost effective … and this is just the North Atlantic, add in the North and South Pacific plus the Indian Ocean; we may need trillions … ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/35 "2017-09-18T18:00:35Z")
Nobody seems to be paying attention to my eminently sensible solution, above. Let me repeat it. We’re _very_ close to having far, far better factory robots than we have now, and robots to perform deliveries. So the sensible thing to do, if hurricanes become common, is to just build new communities in better protected areas out of factory made modules. These modules could be made far stronger than most conventional construction, basically a latticework of steel tubes and 3d printed components. They would come pre-made with their own plumbing, electrical wiring, furnishings - basically ready to live in the moment they are bolted together. A new industry would also exist where cheap robotic labor means that trash doesn’t have to be landfilled immediately, every scrap of usable material could be recovered by having robots sift through and sort garbage streams. This would make the raw materials all these new buildings would need cheaper. Even relocated communities would still get hit by storms sometimes, it’s not as if we can just abandon the coast, lots of jobs there. So when that happens, just have robots pick up all the rubble, load it into trucks, and recycle it all, replacing it with modular buildings. Modular buildings could be self-diagnosing… Also, these welded aluminum buildings could be mounted on poles, with floats on the bottom, so that when floods happen, they just unplug themselves through robotic disconnects from utilities and the whole structure floats up. So the flood waters don’t get inside or do any damage to the interior, and any occupants are only inconvenienced by the lack of utility access. They’d of course all have their own battery modules and solar roofs, of course, so some power would be available even when floating… ---
**Author:** ![J-P\_L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/j-p_l/32/3156_2.png) [@J-P\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J-P_L)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/36 "2017-09-18T19:29:24Z")
But but but. What about the side effects of preventing hurricanes or even altering their paths. Hurricanes are an integral part of the weather patterns on the planet. If mankind messes with that, could the result be worse than what we’ve got now. Of course, the only way to know for sure is to try, but then, if we don’t like the outcome, it’s too late. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/37 "2017-09-18T19:46:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Isilder** : > > But its not impossible in a theoretical , academic sense… The butterfly effect … well you know, if a butterfly flaps its wings, its redirected next years hurricane. Its not proveable that any one butterfly wing flap… so its a bit of a very very very rare Schrodingers butterfly wing… More than 99.99999999999999999999999999 % of wing flaps have no such effect. First of all, there aren’t enough butterflies in the world to be able to put that many nines on any percentage of butterflies. But second of all, that’s exactly backwards. _Every_ butterfly affects the weather. A flap can turn conditions that wouldn’t be a hurricane into a hurricane, or it can turn conditions that would be a hurricane into no hurricane. And to even have a hope of determining which one would take effect, you’d have to have knowledge of every butterfly throughout the world. And, of course, complete knowledge of everything else that moves as much air as a butterfly’s wings, which includes (for instance) people talking. So in order to use the butterfly effect to control weather, you’d have to first control all people in the world. Lots of luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/38 "2017-09-18T20:56:40Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > How about releasing lots of air-filled balloons, enough to cover up a non-trivial fraction of the ocean’s surface? Like the [shade balls](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shade_balls) used on some reservoirs to reduce evaporation. Aluminized mylar balloons perhaps. You’d be better off with a [solar sun shade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sunshade) I think…easier to control. I figure that, eventually, humans will be able to do stuff like that and create such structures to control the weather on the planet and mitigate global warming (or, perhaps, mitigate future ice ages by reflecting more light where we want it or need it). Probably not anytime in the near future though. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/39 "2017-09-19T16:28:43Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I remember a non-fiction piece from a SF magazine (googling shows it to be _Defeating the Son of Andrew_ by Leon O. Billig in the February 1994 issue of _Analog_, but no text of the article available) that proposed building a series of miles-high hollow convection towers along the coast of Florida to drain the energy from approaching hurricanes (and as a bonus using the towers to collect rainwater, and installing turbines to generate electricity.) I remember that issue. If it’d work, this sounds like the most feasible- plus the added benefit of generating basically “free” electricity. I’d love to see a small-scale test here in Salt Lake City, to break the thermal inversion bubble that gives us such bad air quality in the winter. But boy, can you imagine the howls of “NIMBY!” we’d be hearing when someone proposes the idea of putting a huge tower right in the middle of the valley? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415/40 "2017-09-19T20:12:28Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Most of the realistic proposals involve changing the hurricane’s path, since it’s possible to manipulate pressure and humidity in a broad area. One of the political issues with modifying a hurricane is liability; if you divert the hurricane and it does damage where you divert it to, are you responsible for the damage? If the US diverts a hurricane into Mexico, is that an act of war by the US against Mexico? There’s a whole largely untouched field of law that would need to be sorted out before anyone would want to do something like this in the real world. I remember a sci-fi story I read as a kid that had a government agency that was just implementing weather control. They decided to move a hurricane, and I remember that one of the side-effects was the creation of an early freeze in the Midwest as they worked on shoving the hurricane out to sea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-artificially-weakening-destroying-a-hurricane-possible-even-in-theory/796415.md?page=3)