# Is Asian Synonymous with Chinese ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 5, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989 "2002-10-05T19:38:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![andy\_fl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@andy\_fl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy_fl)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/1 "2002-10-05T19:38:46Z")
In the recent Cecil Column, Marshall asks about the Chinese, while Cecil replies on Asians. Are Cecil’s comments on all Asians, Asian Mongoloids or just Chinese ? Is Asian synonymous with Chinese ? ---
**Author:** ![andy\_fl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@andy\_fl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy_fl)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2002, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/2 "2002-10-05T20:09:58Z")
This is response to this Cecil Column ([http://www.straightdope.com/columns/021004.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/021004.html)). Are South Asians i.e. Asian Indians, Sri-Lankans, etc. also considered Asians ? ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/3 "2002-10-06T00:11:42Z")
Asian has come to mean what we old timers referred to as “ORIENTAL.” Obviously Indians, Sri Lankans, Israelis, Saudis, and Turks are technically ASIANS. However most people wouldn’t say Asian to refer to an Israeli. Kind of like “Anti Semite” means “Anti-Jew” even though Arabs are Semites as well. It is an idiom. Thus Asian has come to mean Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese etc… ---
**Author:** ![andy\_fl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@andy\_fl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy_fl)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/4 "2002-10-06T01:06:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Markxxx \* > \*\*Asian has come to mean what we old timers referred to as “ORIENTAL.” \*\* Any Cites ? Or is this your opinion ? Oriental means Indians and the like - quote from [www.dictionary.com](http://www.dictionary.com) - “Oriental Of or designating the biogeographic region that includes Asia south of the Himalaya Mountains and the islands of the Malay Archipelago.” > [@](#): > > \*\* > However most \*\*people \*\*… \*\* Who are most people ? Any statistics ? Is it only Americans ? ---
**Author:** ![phartizan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba8739/32.png) [@phartizan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phartizan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/5 "2002-10-07T01:16:33Z")
My sense is that many Americans often use “Asian” to refer to East and Southeast Asians, specifically Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Vietnamese, Thais, Cambodians, Laotians, Philipinos, Malays, and Indonesians, and maybe Myanmarinians, but not the South Asians west of there–Bangladeshis, Indians, etc. Historically I believe there were more East Asians in the US, so it was natural that they were the ones referred to. But not always. On the other hand, I believe when the British refer to Asians living there, it’s usually South Asians, because they’ve got a larger population. And while Markxxx is technically correct, Americans at least hardly ever refer to what one might call “West Asians” as Asians. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/6 "2002-10-07T23:52:02Z")
The US government standards for classification of Federal data on race and ethnicity: [[Federal Register: October 30, 1997 (Volume 62, Number 210)]](http://frwebgate1.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=03402830391+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve); [Notices]; [Page 58781-58790]; From the Federal Register; Online via GPO Access [[wais.access.gpo.gov](http://wais.access.gpo.gov)]; [DOCID:fr30oc97-141] > [@](#): > > Instead, OMB (Office of Management and Budget) has decided to break apart the Asian or Pacific Islander category into two categories–one called “Asian” and the other called “Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander.”" > > … > > The “Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander” category will be defined as “A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.” (The term “Native Hawaiian” does not include individuals who are native to the State of Hawaii by virtue of being born there.) In addition to Native Hawaiians, Guamanians, and Samoans, this category would include the following Pacific Islander groups reported in the 1990 census: Carolinian, Fijian, Kosraean, Melanesian, Micronesian, Northern Mariana Islander, Palauan, Papua New Guinean, Ponapean (Pohnpelan), Polynesian, Solomon Islander, Tahitian, Tarawa Islander, Tokelauan, Tongan, Trukese (Chuukese), and Yapese. > > The “Asian” category will be defined as “A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.” ---
**Author:** ![andy\_fl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@andy\_fl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy_fl)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/7 "2002-10-08T06:33:50Z")
FROM [Cecil’s Post](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/021004.html) "Technically osmidrosis is the production of objectionably aromatic sweat, but many Asians think they’ve got a problem if they produce any odor when sweating–even an amount that would be considered normal in other \*\* races. \*\* " Thanks Arnold. Asian is not a race as you correctly point out, but rather a collection of different races. IMHO Cecil is worng to group Asians into one race ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/8 "2002-10-08T18:50:22Z")
andy\_fl - now we’re getting into how to define the word “race”. There have been many discussions in the Great Debates forum on that issue. I think the preferred word is something like “population group”. I guess that for the purpose of this article the word “race” should be interpreted to mean “the group of people who have fewer apocrine glands than your average Frenchman, Englishman, Camerounian, etc…” or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![andy\_fl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@andy\_fl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy_fl)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/9 "2002-10-08T23:36:42Z")
OK Arnold now you got me confused. Is Cecil saying that all asians have fewer apocrine glands or is he saying that only chinese asians and the like have fewer apocrine glands. It sures sounds like the former. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/10 "2002-10-09T05:26:42Z")
I think he’s saying that some population groups in Asia have fewer apocrine glands. He didn’t precise exactly which population groups have that characteristic. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/11 "2002-10-11T07:45:40Z")
It is somewhat of an Americanism to refer to southeast Asians as “Asians” and Indians, Pakistanis, etc by their nationality. Asian in casual conversation is taken in this context, and I’m sure it is the context that Cecil was using. As for labeling “Asians” as a race, I think if you look at that statement closely, you will see that he did not label all Asians as one race (however you want to define it), but rather he contrasted the subgrouping of Asians that have fewer apocrine glands with other races, which probably includes Indians in the contrasting group. (I’m speculating there - I don’t know if they have fewer apocrine glands or not, but my reading of the column fits that way.) While I can only speculate as to why this is the case, I think perhaps it could be related to the way certain immigrants refer to themselves in this country. “Asian-American” is almost always used as a self-classification by the aforementioned groups delineated by **phartizan**. On the other hand, middle-east Asians typically refer to themselves as Muslims first and if identifying any ethnicity apart, refer to themselves either as Arabs or more likely by their country of origin. Similarly for Indians, Pakistanis, etc. This is an observed pattern of behavior. If the terminology bothers you, perhaps you can supply a description that includes all groups in **phartizan** ’s list while excluding the ones his list excludes without being offensive to anyone. Note that several definitions of “mongoloid” I have found is as generic as Asian. [http://dictionary.metor.com/wnet/5586475.htm](http://dictionary.metor.com/wnet/5586475.htm) > [@](#): > > Mongoloid (Adjective) > Definition: (Anthropology) of or pertaining to or characteristic of one of the traditional racial division of humankind including especially peoples of central and eastern Asia. [http://www.youthwebonline.com/terms/m.html](http://www.youthwebonline.com/terms/m.html) > [@](#): > > Mongoloid > Characteristic of the Mongolians, esp. in having a broad, flat yellowish face. If race could be broken down to its simplest three groups, they would be Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid. Typically, those whose decent is Asian are considered to fall in this latter group. > Source: “Mongoloid”. Illustrated Oxford Dictionary- Millennium Classic Limited Edition Collection. 1998. [http://www.pathinfo.com/cgi-bin/lh.cgi?tx=racial](http://www.pathinfo.com/cgi-bin/lh.cgi?tx=racial) > [@](#): > > ALEUTS Inuits Aleut Eskimo Inuit > DEFINITION: An ethnic group of the Mongoloid racial stock inhabiting primarily arctic areas > [@](#): > > asian race; race, asiatic; races, asiatic; asiatic races; asiatic race; race, mongoloid; races, mongoloid; mongoloid races; mongoloid race > A major racial group distinguished by classification according to > physical features. This group centers around the Pacific Ocean > and includes the Malayan, Northern and Southern Chinese, > Mongolian, Siberian, Eskimo, and American Indian. Ooh, I came across this interesting article. While it really is off topic for this thread, some of you folks on the race issue might want to read up in preparation for another round of debates. [http://www.amren.com/rushton.htm](http://www.amren.com/rushton.htm) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/12 "2002-10-11T08:27:42Z")
In the UK, the term ‘Asian’ usually means people from South Asia. ---
**Author:** ![Devil\_s\_Advocate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Devil\_s\_Advocate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Devil_s_Advocate)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/13 "2002-10-13T23:25:09Z")
If you want to get technical, we shouldn’t use the term “American” to refer to U.S. citizens, instead of the inhabitants or natives of North and South America. Personally, I assumed that Cecil was using the term “Asian” in the sense that is conventional in the U.S. I didn’t even think about it. But now that I do, it does seem rather strange that I would think of Indians as not being “Asian”, despite the fact that India is clearly located on the Asian continent. And there’s the more general problem that we may use the same terms to refer to people’s nationality, ethnicity, and/or country of residence. Since it’s not always clear what someone is even talking about, these distinctions are bound to be confusing, thereby keeping guys like Cecil in work. (I believe the Strait Dope did a column on what exactly it means for someone to be a “Jew”.) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/14 "2002-10-14T14:52:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Irishman \*Ooh, I came across this interesting article. While it really is off topic for this thread, some of you folks on the race issue might want to read up in preparation for another round of debates. > [http://www.amren.com/rushton.htm](http://www.amren.com/rushton.htm) Why? J Philippe Rushton is a well-known racist. He is utterly irrelevant to scientific inquiry, except as a bad example of political science. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/15 "2002-10-16T03:35:58Z")
Speaking as someone of Indian descent, let me just say from personal experience that many Indians and indian-Americans are not comfortable being grouped as “Asians.” While, “South Asian” has become a widely accepted word for those whose ethnic heritage originates in the Indian subcontinent, most Indians do not feel any ethnic or cultural connection with East Asians that would justify inclusion in an “Asian” umbrella group. Indeed, in the United States, “Asian” is still usually assumed to mean “East Asian.” Until the 1980s or so “Oriental” was in the United States the common word for East Asians. For some reason that became classified as offensive, although I don’t understand why. It has the virtue of being less ambiguous than “Asian.” I myself prefer that “Asian” should be restricted to geographic uses and not ethnic or cultural references. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/16 "2002-10-16T06:14:25Z")
Um, when I posted that, I had just run across it and thought it might be something new. Upon reflection, I realize many of you following the topic are probably already familiar with him and his arguments, so I guess never mind. ---
**Author:** ![phartizan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba8739/32.png) [@phartizan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phartizan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asian-synonymous-with-chinese/130989/17 "2002-11-20T21:44:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by acsenray \* > **Until the 1980s or so “Oriental” was in the United States the common word for East Asians. For some reason that became classified as offensive, although I don’t understand why.** I agree, but “oriental” is taboo because of Edward Said’s _Orientalism_. Actually he had little to say about East Asia.