# Is Asinine Parsimony an especially American thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058 "2012-05-06T12:04:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/41 "2012-05-08T02:52:06Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > The people opposed to rounding prices seem to be incapable of critical thinking (realizing that rounding goes both ways) and pretty ignorant of economics as well. Fair’s fair though - you know the rounding would only ever go up. Not that it would make much of a difference even if sales departments were actually honest about rounding to the nearest even dollar value since every last price ends in .99 or .49 these days 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/42 "2012-05-08T12:42:09Z")
So, do travelers on non-U.S. airlines get free multi-course gourmet meals served on linen tablecloths, with wine and strolling violinists, readings by prominent authors and jugglers and mimes to amuse the kiddies - and it’s only Americans’ asinine parsimony that prevents us from having this wondrous flying experience? Hell, I’d pay more for a flight like that (except stuff the mimes, and don’t make me dress up in a suit and tie). ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/43 "2012-05-08T16:46:48Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’ve sometimes wondered the same thing as the OP, particularly in relation to the “Sales tax not included in the price” thing common to many parts of the US I’ve visited. > > I know I (and others) have asked about it on the boards before and usually get responses about local taxes (bullshit, computers are more than capable of calculating the price at store level) followed by “So you can see how much tax the Government is getting!” > > To which I say “You get the same thing in a “total price” situation with the “This sale includes tax of $X” at the bottom of the receipt.” We tolerate it, and not including the sales tax in the price of items makes things easier for national chains like Wal-Mart, which are selling stuff in lots of different areas with different sales taxes. Each of the 50 states has its own policy on sales taxes, and some cities and counties have additional sales taxes. They can make one TV ad advertising the price of something, instead of having to make a different one for each sales tax zone. I think that’s the real reason sales taxes are not included in prices in the US- large companies with a lot of money want it that way. ETA: To answer the OP, the saying is “penny wise, pound foolish”, not “penny wise, dollar foolish”. So I suspect this kind of petty parsimony is not unique to the US. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/44 "2012-05-08T17:48:57Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Fair’s fair though - you know the rounding would only ever go up. No, you don’t know that. I’m not even sure why you think that. Other countries that have eliminated pennies have instituted fair rounding that goes down as often as up. If a store wants to increase their prices, they can just _do_ that. They don’t need to hide it under the guise of a price-rounding scheme. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/45 "2012-05-08T18:23:16Z")
I actually like the way we do things. Sure, it’s nice to get “free” things from a business, but the bottom line is that it’s not free, you’re paying for it, you’re just not being given an itemized bill. Using the airline flight as an example, if I’m offered a free glass of wine or whatever, sure, I’ll take it. But really the way that works is you’re charged the cost of the flight plus the amortized cost of the “free” drinks. For some people, they’d rather not pay that and just not get the free drink. So, instead, they charge the bare minimum of the service and have service fees on top of that. If I’m not really that interested in drinking on the flight, why should I have to pay more so others can? Sure, it can be a big pain in the ass to get nickled and dimed, and probably most times I’d rather just pay a little more than I need to to avoid that hassle, but in the end it does give the consumer more control over their spending. So I do think that some businesses take it too far, and airline travel is probably one of the worst offenders charging for headphones and drinks and checked baggage and all that sort of stuff, some of which works out to next to nothing and most people would want. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/46 "2012-05-08T22:12:25Z")
> [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > I agree with most of your post, however I’ll nitpick here. Qantas don’t charge for entertainment - they hand out headsets for free. They also serve a snack and tea/coffee on the Canberra to Sydney route even though the aircraft is only in the air for about 20 minutes. After 4 pm on a weekday the booze is also free. Oh, and no charge for checked luggage. Yeah, my memory was sketchy. Thanks for the correction. Virgin does charge for entertainment? I’m almost certain I was on a domestic flight once where you had to pay if you wanted to watch anything other than commercials. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/47 "2012-05-09T00:25:08Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > No, you don’t know that. I’m not even sure why you think that. Other countries that have eliminated pennies have instituted fair rounding that goes down as often as up. > > If a store wants to increase their prices, they can just _do_ that. They don’t need to hide it under the guise of a price-rounding scheme. No, but it’s a convenient excuse, and the shopkeeper can blame the price hike on the big bad gummint over their own greed or malice. And I \*know \*the rounding only goes up because I was there back when the Franc became the Euro, and moreover I was still at a point in life where one Franc represented 10% of my weekly revenue (my folks were real tight with the allowance, man ;)) so I paid more attention to that sort of things than I might had I not cared for every penny. Soda cans in vending machines had been 5f since time immemorial. It’s a nice round number, and it’s one of those big large coins you tended to keep around in your pockets. When we switched, soda cans started costing 1 euro. Nice, round number, and it’s one of those heavy coins you tend to keep around in your pockets. Of course, 1 euro was really 7 francs and a bit… It was like that across the board. Beer in pubs, groceries, fast food… everything was priced to the nearest euro or half-euro up. Never down. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/48 "2012-05-09T01:30:09Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > And I \*know \*the rounding only goes up because I was there back when the Franc became the Euro, and moreover I was still at a point in life where one Franc represented 10% of my weekly revenue (my folks were real tight with the allowance, man ;)) so I paid more attention to that sort of things than I might had I not cared for every penny. > > Never down. That is absolute bullshit. Earlier this week I bought petrol (gas). I filled the tank and it came to $40.02. Guess what- it was rounded down. Of course prices can be rounded down. When a price is set per litre, kg or whatever and a customer buys a quantity which has a quantity of cents which are within the range to be rounded down they will be (paying cash of course). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/49 "2012-05-09T02:09:35Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > That is absolute bullshit. Earlier this week I bought petrol (gas). I filled the tank and it came to $40.02. Guess what- it was rounded down. > > Of course prices can be rounded down. When a price is set per litre, kg or whatever and a customer buys a quantity which has a quantity of cents which are within the range to be rounded down they will be (paying cash of course). True enough, but that’s not what I’m talking about either. Check the price per kilo. _That_ will never be rounded down _when the money itself_ changes. Whether the cashier/manager opts to let you off on a handful of pennies here and there, particularly on large purchases, is another thing altogether. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/50 "2012-05-09T05:05:51Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Does New Jersey charge less of a gas tax to allow for stations to be competitive while employing extra people? I don’t know if that’s the reasoning, but gas is cheaper in N.J. because of a low state tax combined with having four in-state refineries. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/51 "2012-05-09T06:57:22Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > We tolerate it, and not including the sales tax in the price of items makes things easier for national chains like Wal-Mart, which are selling stuff in lots of different areas with different sales taxes. The way that’s handled in Spain (which also has several areas with different taxes) is by setting up the total price to an amount which is ok for them once the highest tax is taken out, advertise the total amount everywhere, and set their PoS to separate the appropriate tax for each location. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/52 "2012-05-09T06:59:05Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I actually like the way we do things. Sure, it’s nice to get “free” things from a business, but the bottom line is that it’s not free, you’re paying for it, you’re just not being given an itemized bill. > > Using the airline flight as an example, if I’m offered a free glass of wine or whatever, sure, I’ll take it. But really the way that works is you’re charged the cost of the flight plus the amortized cost of the “free” drinks. For some people, they’d rather not pay that and just not get the free drink. So, instead, they charge the bare minimum of the service and have service fees on top of that. If I’m not really that interested in drinking on the flight, why should I have to pay more so others can? > > Sure, it can be a big pain in the ass to get nickled and dimed, and probably most times I’d rather just pay a little more than I need to to avoid that hassle, but in the end it does give the consumer more control over their spending. So I do think that some businesses take it too far, and airline travel is probably one of the worst offenders charging for headphones and drinks and checked baggage and all that sort of stuff, some of which works out to next to nothing and most people would want. I agree with all this up to a point. The goal is to find the right compromise between efficiency (and hyper-parsimony) and convenience (and relaxing generosity). You don’t go to the barber and say “I don’t need my sideburns trimmed … can you give me 30 cents off?” Or, at the sandwich shop “Hold the lettuce … and knock 20 cents off.” The question is: Where do you draw the line? Some views, especially the notion that a penny is an important amount of money, lead me to think Americans draw the line too far towards efficiency/hyper-parsimony. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/53 "2012-05-09T09:55:33Z")
I’m an American in asia as we speak, and you regularly are asked for the equivelent of (according to google) 0.00589625 U.S. dollars to make the change a nice round number, so no, it is not an especially American tradition to be hyper anal about pricing. Do as the romans do. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/54 "2012-05-09T10:48:02Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > True enough, but that’s not what I’m talking about either. Check the price per kilo. _That_ will never be rounded down _when the money itself_ changes. Whether the cashier/manager opts to let you off on a handful of pennies here and there, particularly on large purchases, is another thing altogether. I’m not sure I follow what you’re getting at. 😕 The advertised price doesn’t change - if you go to the supermarket here, you’ll see (for example) jars of jam for $2.87. If you were to pay for it via EFTPOS or Credit Card, you’d be charged $2.87 for it. If you paid cash for it, the price would be rounded down to $2.85 (since there’s no 1 or 2c pieces anymore). I don’t recall advertised prices changing when 1 and 2c pieces were done away with, either. Then again, Australia (and NZ, and, I believe, the UK) have far stronger consumer protection laws than the US, from what I gather, which might have something to do with it. > [@rogerbox](#): > > I’m an American in asia as we speak, and you regularly are asked for the equivelent of (according to google) 0.00589625 U.S. dollars to make the change a nice round number, so no, it is not an especially American tradition to be hyper anal about pricing. I’ve visited parts of South-East Asia and been asked the same thing, but it appeared to me to have more do with with the shop staff not being great with maths (I saw people using calculators to work out fairly simply things like how much change should be given from RM25 for an item that cost RM18.20, for example). ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/55 "2012-05-09T16:26:05Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Soda cans in vending machines had been 5f since time immemorial. It’s a nice round number, and it’s one of those big large coins you tended to keep around in your pockets. When we switched, soda cans started costing 1 euro. Nice, round number, and it’s one of those heavy coins you tend to keep around in your pockets. Of course, 1 euro was really 7 francs and a bit… > It was like that across the board. Beer in pubs, groceries, fast food… everything was priced to the nearest euro or half-euro up. Never down. Changing currencies is not analogous to dropping small coins and rounding prices. In the first case, you’re dealing with the macroeconomic effects of bringing multiple currency zones into one and a lot more complexity. It wouldn’t surprise me if, say, prices in one former currency zone went up in general, while prices in another went down. In addition, there are cognitive biases about anchoring around whole numbers. So, yes, when you change the value of the underlying unit of currency, you’re likely to get new anchors. Things are much more likely to be $0.50 or $0.99 than they are to be $0.41 or $0.83, regardless of the value of $1. So when the underlying unit of currency shifts, you’re going to see shifts towards whole numbers. None of those are factors when you drop the penny (or other small fractional coin). ---
**Author:** ![ExcitedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@ExcitedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExcitedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/56 "2012-05-10T09:45:04Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Another example of suspect thrift is allowing Walmart to dictate to producers. I recently read that Rubbermaid moved some of its manufacturing overseas-- costing decent American jobs-- because Walmart demanded lower prices. Sure, low prices help consumers, but they’re cold comfort to somebody who got laid off or had to accept a pay cut. I’m so sick of hearing about this. Large companies buy lots of product. Buying lots of product gives you leverage. Leverage allows you to negotiate lower prices. Rubbermaid could tell Walmart to go pound sand. They could refuse to outsource jobs. Americans could refuse to buy foreign made products. A manufacturer outsourced jobs, and somehow one of their retailers is taking the blame for it. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058/57 "2012-05-10T10:58:38Z")
> [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > I’m so sick of hearing about this. > > Large companies buy lots of product. Buying lots of product gives you leverage. Leverage allows you to negotiate lower prices. Rubbermaid could tell Walmart to go pound sand. They could refuse to outsource jobs. Americans could refuse to buy foreign made products. > > A manufacturer outsourced jobs, and somehow one of their retailers is taking the blame for it. It’s possible - and I don’t have all the facts with me, so I’m speaking in generalities and hypotheticals here - that the retailer had become such a large client of the manufacturer that refusing to play ball would mean the retailer would take their business elsewhere and the manufacturer would collapse without their major account. So in that case, yeah, it is sort of the retailer’s fault (although the manufacturer has to take some of the blame for not adequately diversifying their accounts as well). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asinine-parsimony-an-especially-american-thing/621058.md?page=2)