# Is Asperger syndrome real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 24, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288 "2008-11-24T18:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/1 "2008-11-24T18:11:41Z")
If so, is it as common as some people claim? Because it seems to me that it is mostly self-diagnosed by people who want a justification for their PITA behavior. Posted here because I think it will become a debate, if not a pitting. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/2 "2008-11-24T18:20:18Z")
It certainly seems to be real, even though some people say it shouldn’t be seperated from high functioning autism generally. But there are certainly cases of people who display the symptoms of Asperger’s syndrome…poor communication skills and social interaction, stereotyped and repetitive behaviors and interests, and impaired functioning. That, of course, that doesn’t mean that everyone who says he or she has it, has it, especially if that person is self diagnosed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/3 "2008-11-24T18:23:34Z")
Of course it’s real, it’s… ooh, bunnies… ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/4 "2008-11-24T18:25:38Z")
No, that’s ADD,\*\* Bryan\*\*. At least, I think it is. Never made it through the whole Wikipedia entry. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/5 "2008-11-24T18:31:32Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It certainly seems to be real, even though some people say it shouldn’t be seperated from high functioning autism generally. But there are certainly cases of people who display the symptoms of Asperger’s syndrome…poor communication skills and social interaction, stereotyped and repetitive behaviors and interests, and impaired functioning. > > That, of course, that doesn’t mean that everyone who says he or she has it, has it, especially if that person is self diagnosed. Exactly. It is quite real, but it has become the “popular” self-diagnosed syndrome these days, especially with “nerdy” people with poor social skills. But this has the effect of diluting this syndrome in the minds of many people (including **dropzone** ). I’m a nerd and I’ve had to work hard to improve my social skills, but I’m certainly not disabled. Autism (including Asperger’s syndrome) is a disability, though some would debate this affirmation. (Is it a disability or just another “normal” way to see and understand the world?) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/6 "2008-11-24T18:32:13Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Never made it through the whole Wikipedia entry. I tried, once, but some people kept inserting off-topic material and couldn’t understand why that might be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/7 "2008-11-24T18:36:07Z")
Asperger’s Syndrome, while certainly seems to be very real, has become the new ADD (or ADHD?). There are legitimate cases, but there are probably way more self-diagnosed claims by people who want an excuse to justify their social inadequacies, and act like a anti-social dick when it lends to their convenience. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/8 "2008-11-24T19:27:47Z")
Aspergers Syndrome is definitely real. It may also be overdiagnosed or over self-diagnosed, but both my nephew and a good friend of mine have it. In both cases, their symptoms were obvious before they were four years old. Their symptoms are the same, it affects them in the same way, it is altogether too real. w. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/9 "2008-11-24T19:31:18Z")
I’m of the opinion that its real to the extent that there are many people who tend to share a set of personality traits. I.e. they are awkward, stuborn, don’t socialize well, tend to obsess aboute minutia, etc. Now whether this a syndrome per-se, and not just a common charachter trait grouping (like airy bimbos or driven workaholics), is the real question. For example I know a guy who is classic example of Asperger’s. If I never heard of the syndrome I would have just though that the guy was a little weird and kind of obnoxious. To me, we’ve always had people like this around. We just never put 2 and 2 together and realize that the traits tend to come in a package and that there might be something more to it than the person is just awkward or weird. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/10 "2008-11-24T19:35:38Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Of course it’s real, it’s… ooh, bunnies… My experience with Asperger’s is more hyper-attentiveness to one thing at the exclusion of all else. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/11 "2008-11-24T19:39:32Z")
I’m confused. If your good friend has it, how can he be your friend at all, much less a good one? The way I understand it, people with Aspberger’s cannot form close, personal relationships. Is there an example in history or popular culture who is a good example of a person with AS, versus a generic, poorly socialized, nerd? I suppose that an ardent role-playing gamer or poster on a message board is automatically out because of the social contact requirements, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/12 "2008-11-24T19:40:36Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > My experience with Asperger’s is more hyper-attentiveness to one thing at the exclusion of all else. But isn’t that more like obsessive-compulsive disorder? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/13 "2008-11-24T19:48:11Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > But isn’t that more like obsessive-compulsive disorder? I guess they share symptoms. My one friend who is undiagnosed (or hasn’t told me if he was) but has all the tells will obsess about minute details and interject even if interjecting is more inappropriate than letting it slide. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/14 "2008-11-24T19:59:30Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Because it seems to me that it is mostly self-diagnosed by people who want a justification for their PITA behavior. How does that old saying go? Don’t write checks with your mouth your ass can’t cash? Did wonders for me when I was a kid. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/15 "2008-11-24T20:02:16Z")
People with poor social skills should just do the rest of the world a favor and get the hell out of the gene pool. At least this is the impression I get from the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/16 "2008-11-24T20:05:43Z")
Start off [here.](http://web.syr.edu/~rjkopp/data/as_diag_list.html) > [@](#): > > The essential features of Asperger’s Disorder are: > Criterion A. Severe and sustained impairment in social interaction > Criterion B. The development of restricted, repetitive patterns of > behaviour, interests, and activities > Criterion C. The disturbance must cause clinically significant impairment > in social, occupational, or other important areas of > functioning. > Criterion D. In contrast to Autistic Disorder, there are no clinically > significant delays in language (eg: single words are used > by age 2 years, communicative phrases are used by age 3 > years). > Criterion E. There are no clinically significant delays in cognitive > development or in the development of age-appropriate > self-help skills, adaptive behaviour (other than in social > interaction), and curiosity about the environment in > childhood. > Criterion F. The diagnosis is not given if the criteria are met > for any other specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or > for Schizophrenia. Individuals with Aspergers can indeed form friendships. They are impaired in social interaction but they still have social interaction and still love and still hurt. The ability to get their needs met through social interactions are deficient however. That often makes it very hard. Yes narrow interests with attention to the specifics are a key feature. While not a diagnostic criteria, the usual is that individuals with Aspergers (and other high functioning autistic individuals which Aspergers at least blends into) will be great knowing the details about every tree but poor at understanding what the forest is all about. Memorizing specifics is easy but recognizing and/or applying an abstract generalization is very very difficult. Is it real? Of course. It describes a group of individuals with those traits and is those a shorthand that communicates that information. It suggests that one look for other characteristics that may travel as part of the pattern as well (e.g. sensory hyper and hyposensitivities) and that certain approaches may be likely to help the individual function to their best. Nothing more and nothing less. Is it a bit fuzzy around the edges? Of course. What counts as “severe”, “restricted” or “significant”? Ultimately some subjectivity is involved in making the call. And self-diagnosis is always a sloppy thing. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/17 "2008-11-24T20:47:46Z")
Okay, it’s real and some of the people with it can form friendships, sorta. OTOH, the term has been hijacked by some (many? very many?) people as a way to explain and even excuse their non-Aspberger-related, but similar, traits. So, any numbers on how much of the population is actually affected? How many people have claimed it without having it (after 8 years here I’d estimate that a solid 25% of Dopers claim it, significantly reducing my sympathy)? And how many diagnoses are made just so a doctor can get an annoying patient out of his office? And I’m still wondering about historical persons who it is pretty darn obvious had it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/18 "2008-11-24T21:10:27Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > So, any numbers on how much of the population is actually affected? According to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke: [http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/asperger/detail\_asperger.htm](http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/asperger/detail_asperger.htm) > [@](#): > > The incidence of AS is not well established, but experts in population studies conservatively estimate that two out of every 10,000 children have the disorder. Boys are three to four times more likely than girls to have AS. In terms of common symptoms: > [@](#): > > The most distinguishing symptom of AS is a child’s obsessive interest in a single object or topic to the exclusion of any other. Some children with AS have become experts on vacuum cleaners, makes and models of cars, even objects as odd as deep fat fryers. Children with AS want to know everything about their topic of interest and their conversations with others will be about little else. Their expertise, high level of vocabulary, and formal speech patterns make them seem like little professors. > > Children with AS will gather enormous amounts of factual information about their favorite subject and will talk incessantly about it, but the conversation may seem like a random collection of facts or statistics, with no point or conclusion. > > Their speech may be marked by a lack of rhythm, an odd inflection, or a monotone pitch. Children with AS often lack the ability to modulate the volume of their voice to match their surroundings. For example, they will have to be reminded to talk softly every time they enter a library or a movie theatre. > > Unlike the severe withdrawal from the rest of the world that is characteristic of autism, children with AS are isolated because of their poor social skills and narrow interests. In fact, they may approach other people, but make normal conversation impossible by inappropriate or eccentric behavior, or by wanting only to talk about their singular interest. > > Children with AS usually have a history of developmental delays in motor skills such as pedaling a bike, catching a ball, or climbing outdoor play equipment. They are often awkward and poorly coordinated with a walk that can appear either stilted or bouncy. > > Many children with AS are highly active in early childhood, and then develop anxiety or depression in young adulthood. Other conditions that often co-exist with AS are ADHD, tic disorders (such as Tourette syndrome), depression, anxiety disorders, and OCD. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/19 "2008-11-24T21:10:45Z")
I knew a man whom to this day I don’t know if he had Asperger’s or a similar autism. He was perfectly functional, except that nothing he didn’t want to acknowledge got through. And I mean _nothing_. He was seemingly incapable of seeing that the world didn’t work in the way he wanted it to. What made me doubt that he was actually mentally ill (at least, in a concrete brain-malfunction sense instead of a straight induced-delusional sense) was the fact that his inner-world was perfectly agreeable whenever it suited him. That is, as long as the outer world was to his liking he accepted it perfectly fine, and whenever the consequences were really bad he had no trouble getting along. Anyway, he died of cancer and to some degree I always liked him. He eventually got infurated with me because I ironically tried to help him. On the other hand, he was a huge PITA, so I don’t really mind not being in the same room as him again. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288/20 "2008-11-24T21:11:15Z")
First off, yes the whole autistic spectrum disorder (ASD) label can be overly broadly applied. It is useful conceptually: there is no clear line that demarcates frank autism from mild autism to high functioning autism to odd normal or part of the normal functioning “broad autistic phenotype”. Understanding the spectrum nature of the condition is important. But the risk of recognizing that conceptually is that any socially awkward individual, especially one with delays that include language in any form, even if not specific to language, risks being misclassified as ASD. And it creates a very elastic set of diagnostic criteria that makes comparison of prevalence very difficult to perform across time or even localities. No, no one ever just hands out that label to get someone out of the office. Handing out the label is a lot of work. You’d avoid that label to avoid work, believe me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-asperger-syndrome-real/474288.md?page=2)