# Is Atheism a "religion"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2000, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743 "2000-03-10T14:55:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pashley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pashley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pashley)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/1 "2000-03-10T14:55:00Z")
Is hard-core Atheism, the belief there IS NO GOD a religion? I’ll say “no”, since religion is based on the belief that there is a higher power. If that is true, what is Atheism then? A scientific theory? * * * Patrick Ashley ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/2 "2000-03-10T15:07:00Z")
Only in the same way that not believing in Santa Claus is a religion. Or the Easter Bunny. Or Odin. Or Superman. Most of us don’t dumb-down the definition of religion until it means nothing, though. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/3 "2000-03-10T15:17:00Z")
Atheism is a position on a statement of fact. It is a religion in exactly the sense that a vaccuum is an atmosphere. * * * - The best lack all conviction The worst are full of passionate intensity. \* ---
**Author:** ![pashley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pashley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pashley)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/4 "2000-03-10T15:55:00Z")
spiritus mundi > [@](#): > > “Atheism is a position on a statement of fact. > It is a religion in exactly the sense that a vaccuum is an atmosphere.” FACT? Oh really? You have total knowledge of the universe to KNOW that there is no God? That makes YOU God (which i’m sure, you already believe). * * * Patrick Ashley ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke ---
**Author:** ![Glitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/0ea827/32.png) [@Glitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glitch)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/5 "2000-03-10T15:58:00Z")
Still having a hard time actually reading posts, hey Patrick? It is a **position** on a statement of fact. This is rather different that a statement of fact. ---
**Author:** ![Glitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/0ea827/32.png) [@Glitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glitch)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/6 "2000-03-10T16:03:00Z")
Just to make it clear: The statement of fact in this case is either: a) God exists. or b) God doesn’t exist. Feel free to take your pick of what statement of fact you want to use. The position of the atheist in a) would be No, that is not true. The position of the atheist in b) would be Yes, that is true. ---
**Author:** ![pashley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pashley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pashley)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/7 "2000-03-10T16:05:00Z")
Glitch, Oh yes, I see the vague semantic difference. Either way, my post addresses it. * * * Patrick Ashley ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke ---
**Author:** ![Glitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/0ea827/32.png) [@Glitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glitch)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/8 "2000-03-10T16:13:00Z")
Patrick: Your post seems to object to atheism itself, rather than what atheism is. Hardly surprisingly, coming from a theist with your mindset (take that as a observation or insult at your leisure, I intend it is an observation). Correct me if I am wrong but you OP seems to ask “What is atheism?” in particular “Is atheism a religion?”. The answer is decided no, because as stated atheism is simply a position. It by default has no additional qualifiers attached to it, although in practice this may or may not be true (I suspect there are few atheist young earth creationists, so you could conclude perhaps that atheism is also a position on young earth creationism as well). Theism, on the other hand, is a religion because it has attached to it a set of other rules and beliefs. It in a sense can be taken as a position on fact as well, but that position generally covers more ground than simply “Does God Exist”. This isn’t to say “theism bad, atheism good”. It simply is what is. ---
**Author:** ![pashley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pashley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pashley)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/9 "2000-03-10T16:15:00Z")
glitch: > [@](#): > > "The statement of fact in this case is either… No, statement of BELIEF. There is no fact. In my original post, I outlaid the parameters for Atheism, the belief there is no God. What part of “there is no God” don’t you understand? * * * Patrick Ashley ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke ---
**Author:** ![Glitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/0ea827/32.png) [@Glitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glitch)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/10 "2000-03-10T16:18:00Z")
Patrick: You seem confused as to what “statement of fact” means. A statement of fact is simply what is being evaluated (or taken) as fact. I.e. an assumption for the purposes of evaluating it. For example, Kyokushin karate is the best style of karate. This isn’t a fact. It is a **statement** of fact. ---
**Author:** ![Glitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/0ea827/32.png) [@Glitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glitch)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/11 "2000-03-10T16:19:00Z")
If you object to the use of “statement of fact” as meaning a fact to be evaluated, then your issue is with the common use of the english term. I would tend to agree it is not necessarily 100% clear, but it means what it means. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/12 "2000-03-10T16:25:00Z")
Pashley does not understand what a statement of fact is. That is a statement of fact. My position on that statement of fact is: true. My evidence for that position consists of several posts made in this thread, even after Glitch’s kind attempts to explain what the phrase means. That does not make it a fact that Pashley does not understand what a statement of fact is. If Pashley knew what a statement of fact was, he would understand that. * * * - The best lack all conviction The worst are full of passionate intensity. \* ---
**Author:** ![Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cooper)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/13 "2000-03-10T16:30:00Z")
What is your position on the statement of fact: Pashley is a troll? ---
**Author:** ![Glitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/0ea827/32.png) [@Glitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glitch)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/14 "2000-03-10T16:32:00Z")
Perhaps this would be a clearer definition of atheism. Atheism is a position on an axiom, that axiom being “God exists”. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/15 "2000-03-10T16:44:00Z")
Cooper: I don’t have enough evidence to judge, yet. This is my first interaction with the Pahley in question. Glitch: I can live with your rewording. The statements are likely equivalent for the purposes of this discussion. * * * - The best lack all conviction The worst are full of passionate intensity. \* ---
**Author:** ![LordDenning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LordDenning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordDenning)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/16 "2000-03-10T17:16:00Z")
I think of religion as essentially faith. In fact, the two words can be used interchangeably. Whereas gods, by definition, are as hard to prove as to disprove, atheism requires as much faith as theism, and therefore, if theism is a religion, then so is atheism. As a sidebar, consequentially, agnosticism is not a religion. -D ---
**Author:** ![pashley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pashley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pashley)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/17 "2000-03-10T17:19:00Z")
Cooper, Think I’m a troll? Fine, if i understand it as being someone that tries to induce discussion. You made such a wonderful contribution, thanks so much. Ok, let’s take this another direction. Since YOU, the atheist cannot say with absolute certainty, “There is no God”, and I, the theist, cannot say with absolute certainty, “GOD exists”, I’d like to submit that we are all just Agnostics, with a pro-God, or N0-god bent. Thoughts? * * * Patrick Ashley ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke ---
**Author:** ![Glitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/0ea827/32.png) [@Glitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glitch)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/18 "2000-03-10T17:28:00Z")
Sure, but only if you want to be anal retentive about it. 🙂 Let’s face it, the term is simply for ease of communication just like many terms in the english language. In the course of everyday speak it makes sense to use terms like theist & atheist so that we don’t have to use long phrases to describes ourselves. I am an atheist in that I consider the odds of any gods existence to be so low, I call it 0%. Certainly any intellectually honest person is going to say, “Well, sure you can’t know for certain” but again this is where the anal retentiveness comes into play. You cannot prove that the Theory of Gravity (under normal circumstances) is valid, but if somebody decided to make an issue in the course of a discussion I would like smack them on the back of the head. By the way, you may consider reading the threads: “The Atheist Religion”, “The Atheist Relgion Part II” and the “The Atheist Relgion Part III”. A lot of this has been covered extensively there. ---
**Author:** ![hardcore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@hardcore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardcore)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/19 "2000-03-10T17:32:00Z")
> [@](#): > > You have total knowledge of the universe to KNOW that there is no God? That makes YOU God Using this logic, my total knowledge of the universe to KNOW that there is no Superman makes ME Superman. ALRIGHT!!! YIPPEE!! I always wanted to be Superman! Does this mean I have a Super…?? Is the Man of Steel truly a man of steel?? silly twit. ---
**Author:** ![Sake\_Samurai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sake\_Samurai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sake_Samurai)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2000, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743/20 "2000-03-11T06:00:00Z")
I have a different view of atheism: it is a FACT that there are no gods. This is the reality of the situation, the way things are and the way existence is disseminated by my senses. I hold that no intelligent, rational or spiritual man or woman truly believes in any god. They may very well _want_ or _need_ a higher power for justification, guidance, self-pity, solace, or to fullfill nameless yearnings and other mental deficiencies, but at the core it is all a dire charade and we are all atheists! The sky is blue. The grass is green. There is no god. * * * Yet to be reconciled with the reality of the dark for a moment, I go on wandering from dream to dream. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-atheism-a-religion/17743.md?page=2)