Don’t you listen to Robertson and Fallwell? Katrina is proof. 9/11 is proof. Everything negative is proof of just how reprobate our society is!!
Argh… and people really do listen to them… even still.
There was more overt atheism amonst the Founding Fathers and their European kin in France and elsewhere, than there is amongst the current batch.
But you can’t be moral without a belief in God…
right?
(that one just gets on my last nerve…)
And as a result every politician must be religious or pay lip service to religion - Protestant Christianity, to be precise.
We’re living in a secular culture where religion is basically frowned upon. Art, books, movies dictate trends in our culture… and when was the last time hollywood produced a classic like Zeffirelli’s “Brother Sun, Sister Moon”?
So it’s not unheard of to think atheism is on the rise. I know this board has it’s share of atheists… do you recall a few weeks back how a good majority of the threads were atheist/theist related? Apparently it’s a hot topic… I enjoyed participating, too…
I disagree. Religion is not frowned upon except by certain groups. Overall… religion is considered an important character trait. This varies regionally I am sure, but hearing people in Texas (as I do) complain about being repressed for being Christian is just… yeah… it’s beyond silly.
Can you name any mainstream movies or television shows which have expressly posited the non-existence of God? Can you name any that have had a sympathetic protagonist who was expressly atheist?
Isn’t the characters in the TV show House a self proclaimed atheist? I’ve seen several books where the characters were obviously atheist, even if they didn’t come out and hit the reader over the head with ATHEIST tattooed on their foreheads or something.
-XT
I’ve got one. Bones, on the Fox network, has the title character played by Emily Deschanel as an atheist. David Boreanaz is an express believer. They play off against each other on this but neither come off as a prig about it.
I don’t watch it, but isn’t the cartoon character Lisa Simpson an atheist?
-XT
I don’t think religion should be considered an important character trait. There are many non believers who have impeccable characters. Their lack of religion does not make them any less of a person.
You’ll get no argument from me. I just know that in some circles their morality is so intertwined with God, that they can’t conceive of a moral structure without “him.”
Therefore it becomes an indictment on their (our) character that we lack a faith in any supernatural power.
I’ve never seen the show myself, but from what I understand, isn’t House also a complete and utter bastard?
It depends on the demands of the plot for that particular episode.
I believe The Golden Compass could be considered in the anti-religion category. I haven’t seen the movie firsthand, I’m only commenting on what I’ve read about it.
What are you trying to get at? You don’t agree that we’re living in a secular culture? That’s fine… I just see things differently. I don’t think I need to make a list of artists, movies, tv shows or other cultural trends to prove it. It’s just an observation on my part.
You don’t need to agree. I’m always willing to accept other POV’s and i wont’ force you to prove your point either.
The movie itself doesn’t even touch on the issue, unless the mere notion of a dogmatic quasi-religious organization being naughty strikes you as a blanket indictment.
Not to say they won’t get more explicit in the later movies, but the first is pretty silent on the subject.
What I’m trying to get at is that you made a claim that is patently ridiculous. Far from religion being “frowned on” in American culture, we are instead saturated by it. It is extremely rare to see anything in the mainstream media that rejects the concepts of religion and spirituality entirely, and only slightly more common to see characters who support such a view being portrayed as sympathetic, compassionate, or moral.
You damned well should. You may have missed it, but this forum is called “Great Debates,” not “Great Unsupported Assertations.” If you’re not willing to defend your position, or to challenge the positions of others, what’s the point of you even being here?
OTOH, if a show is neither theistic nor atheistic, is that not the pinnacle of atheism?
No, the pinnacle of atheism is that show where the heroic atheist defends his family against the violent attacks of hordes of evil christians, who are all stupid and crude and abuse their wives and brainwash their children. You know the show, it’s that one, you know -oh, wait, there is no such show.
I think that silence on the subject represents that benign “live and let live” philosophy mentioned earlier, which is entirely compatible with theism.
Funny. I wonder if any of the major characters believe in Thor. Without taking a hard stand on Thor, they are categorically allowing Thor belief to endure!!
Not all atheists are evangelical atheists. And certainly most are not militant. It’s like many groups of people, somehow each group gets defined by it’s more extreme (and more vocal) members, thus maligning what they seek to help.
I’m not here to prove anything to anyone, or change anyone’s mind, or criticize their POV’s. I’m pretty liberal with people and their belief systems. If you tell me your opinion on the state of the economy, I don’t need for you to cite why you think like you do. I just don’t need for you to prove yourself to me. You’re entitled to your own opinion. I’m not a hard-ass like that. Why, is that wrong?