# Is autofabrication on the verge of changing the world? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460 "2008-11-19T16:03:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/41 "2008-11-20T06:03:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which is why ever since the nanotech idea was created, the idea has been for them to use molecular scale mechanical computers; like tiny Babbage Engines. They probably won’t use what we’d consider electronics at all, any more that cells do. The problem with _that_ idea, however, is all the problems and limitations which that entails. Despite what Bruce Sterling and William Gibson would have you believe, mechanical computers are _severely_ limited in what they can do. They can’t be anywhere near as flexible as the software we currently have, and when you have a large gear train (like you’d need for one to travel around your innards and hunt for cancer cells), you spend a lot of time just waiting for the gears to “spool up.” Even dropping things down to the nanoscale, you’ll wind up with something that’s hardly comparabe to a pocket calculator from the 1980s. > [@](#): > > I think we will; it’s just a more sophisticated version of what nature does with blood cells. Its more sophisticated version of the computers we have now. > [@](#): > > Or you’d have free roaming nanobots in you all the time; and when something beyond their sophistication was needed THEN you’d go to “external control mode”. I doubt they’d need much if any extra power; they can’t really USE much more power than your body already can provide for them without killing you by overheating. For just that reason I suspect that someone with a nanotech immune system would have the natural version disabled. Yeah, but how much heat could those things put out? After all, its not like they’d ever be a significant portion of your body mass. > [@](#): > > Yes, and no. I think you probably could, but it would be a cure worse than the disease. For one thing, while you could **perhaps** create some that would be able to detect large concentrations of uranium and then explosively grow and destroy it; but that would mean you’ve released nanotech that’s dangerously independent. And probably more important, that guy’s uranium scavenging lawnmower will probably just have nanobot defenses that destroy your anti-WMD nanobots. And if you build some that are both independent AND can overwhelm such defenses - now you’ve just released stuff into the environment that’s flexible, independent AND is designed to overcome anti-nanobot defenses. Which is the kind of grey goo creating “extreme stupidity” that I referred to above. All of which depends upon how much processing power, and how flexible it is, in the nanobots, and we won’t know that until they build them. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/42 "2008-11-20T06:20:57Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > Consider that you now have a device that can not only place (using frikkin _Lasers_) a single black dot, on a page that can optionally contain 31 680 000 dots (600dpi^2 \* 8 \* 11), in MILLIONS of Colors and do that 22 times a minute, and do so for less than $500. > > Now consider that fabricators are nothing more than scaled up ink jet printers. (You know, the ones you throw out because it’s cheaper than buying a new ink cartrigde?) > > I think personal fabricators will happen sooner then you expect. Tell you what, when they can make a machine that will put a dot using a laser onto a piece of paper for less than $ 500 that won’t jam on a single 8.5 x 11 piece of letter paper, then I’ll start looking into these new fangled 3D printers. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/43 "2008-11-20T06:27:07Z")
What kind of substances can it operate with? My wife’s first response was, “Can it make me a cheesecake?”, and I thought about that. The consistency of a cheesecake is quite different from the toy airplane propeller it carved out of plastic in the image on the wiki article. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/44 "2008-11-20T06:36:32Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > What kind of substances can it operate with? My wife’s first response was, “Can it make me a cheesecake?”, and I thought about that. The consistency of a cheesecake is quite different from the toy airplane propeller it carved out of plastic in the image on the wiki article. [Homaro Cantu is no doubt working on it.](http://fringehog.com/2007/01/22/sushi-smackdown/) > [@](#): > > For instance, if you’re not able to digest a steak we can print one up for you that will dissolve on your tongue. MB: How do you ?print up a steak’?HC: Well, it’s patent pending… but in short, you press a button [on a desktop printer] and out comes your edible substrate [aka, edible paper] and you can eat it. We can alter the texture, the flavor, we can print text on it to communicate with you. We’re also working on a 3D food printer with the NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts (NIAC)…We’re dissecting, for example, the ingredients in an apple -pectin, water, chlorophyll, sugars, acids, etc. and after we dissect those, we place them into say, ink-jet cartridges, and we can reformulate it with a 3-dimensional printer. [The result is] a direct replication of the original product that looks and tastes just like it, but has an indefinite shelf life. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/45 "2008-11-20T10:22:09Z")
I hope y’all realize that _this_ is the machine that will rise up and destroy the human race. It won’t even be intentional. It will simply follow its mindless programming to harvest available resources to continue its mission of self replication. Eventually, the most convenient input will be the nearest human skull. It will suck our veins dry for iron, and pound our bones to make its bread-shaped energy pellets. I’m looking forward to owning one. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/46 "2008-11-20T12:28:24Z")
> [@Kendall Jackson](#): > > I hope y’all realize that _this_ is the machine that will rise up and destroy the human race. It won’t even be intentional. It will simply follow its mindless programming to harvest available resources to continue its mission of self replication. Eventually, the most convenient input will be the nearest human skull. It will suck our veins dry for iron, and pound our bones to make its bread-shaped energy pellets. > > I’m looking forward to owning one. I think you’ve been watching too many of those crappy Sci-Fi channel movies. 😉 > [@mswas](#): > > Tell you what, when they can make a machine that will put a dot using a laser onto a piece of paper for less than $ 500 that won’t jam on a single 8.5 x 11 piece of letter paper, then I’ll start looking into these new fangled 3D printers. I’m trying to be tactful here: You need a new printer. If you don’t need color, I’ve seen B&W laser printers for well under $100. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/47 "2008-11-20T13:25:14Z")
> [@Kendall Jackson](#): > > It will suck our veins dry for iron, and pound our bones to make its bread-shaped energy pellets. > > I’m looking forward to owning one. Ah yes, the Fe-fi-fo-fabricator 3000. Is it just me or do objects created by those 3D printer look sort of rough? ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/48 "2008-11-20T13:38:00Z")
They do, and I have no idea how fragile they are, but it’s easy to understate how game-changing this process is for manufacturing. To go from CAD design to something you can hold in your hand in a day is stunning, considering that the process _used_ to be very time intensive and required a lot of resources. Even more so considering that the part you spit out on the printer can then be used as a mould to create an investment cast item. You’ve taken what used to be a multi month process and reduces it to a few weeks (or less). See here: [How does a new product go through the prototyping process? | HowStuffWorks](http://home.howstuffworks.com/product-prototyping-process.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/49 "2008-11-20T14:13:47Z")
> [@Kendall Jackson](#): > > I hope y’all realize that _this_ is the machine that will rise up and destroy the human race. It won’t even be intentional. It will simply follow its mindless programming to harvest available resources to continue its mission of self replication. Eventually, the most convenient input will be the nearest human skull. It will suck our veins dry for iron, and pound our bones to make its bread-shaped energy pellets. No worries ! Someone will come by it sooner or later, press RESET, and then print out a new copy of you ! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/50 "2008-11-20T18:57:33Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > I’m trying to be tactful here: You need a new printer. If you don’t need color, I’ve seen B&W laser printers for well under $100. LOL, it’s funny how often attempts to be tactful make an innocuous statement seem less tactful. Like you are judging me for not having a good enough printer. I actually don’t have a working printer, but I’ve seen enough printers jam in my time (Worked IT tech support for years) that I have a pretty good idea of how often they do so. So before I am going to believe that 3D printers are these amazing whiz bang world changing items, I’d like to see it print over 1000 parts without needing maintenance. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/51 "2008-11-20T19:50:01Z")
Hmmm. Well then…untactfully… If you consider total number of pages printed, printers don’t jam. You just notice when it does. (Selection bias) I suspect that, when you unjam that next printer, if you query how many pages it’s actually printed successfully, the jam rate will be less than 0.01% The point of personal fabricator, though, is NOT to print 1000 of anything. You want _a_ phone, _a_ wire wisk, _a_ alarm clock, _a_ TV remote control, _a_ water bottle, _a_ serving plate, _a_ fly-swatter, _a_ Door Key. See where I’m going with this? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/52 "2008-11-20T19:52:46Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > Hmmm. Well then…untactfully… > > If you consider total number of pages printed, printers don’t jam. You just notice when it does. (Selection bias) I suspect that, when you unjam that next printer, if you query how many pages it’s actually printed successfully, the jam rate will be less than 0.01% Jamming one out of every 10,000 times is still too often. 1/20,000 is too often also. I’ve seen printers less than a week or two old jamming, and then continuously jamming. Printers jam and they jam a lot. At least the sub $ 500 models. > [@](#): > > The point of personal fabricator, though, is NOT to print 1000 of anything. You want _a_ phone, _a_ wire wisk, _a_ alarm clock, _a_ TV remote control, _a_ water bottle, _a_ serving plate, _a_ ly-swatter, _a_ Door Key. Obviously. I am not talking about mass production. I am talking about printing out 1000 things, they don’t need to be the same thing. > [@](#): > > See where I’m going with this? Let me see if I can put this tactfully. It isn’t me who doesn’t understand, it’s you who is assuming I don’t understand. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/53 "2008-11-20T23:23:12Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Ah yes, the Fe-fi-fo-fabricator 3000. > > Is it just me or do objects created by those 3D printer look sort of rough? That’s a side effect of the resolution offered by the lasers. The really fine tunable lasers are still incredibly expensive, so to keep costs down, they use the less expensive ones. So, they’re _not_ really comparable to inkjet printers yet, more like dot matrix printers (without that annoying “Breeeet! Breeeet! Breeeet!” noise). ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/54 "2008-11-22T23:32:18Z")
Probably in the next twenty years it will start to have an effect on the types of objects that are made of only one or two basic materials - toys, simple tools, knock knacks, etc. It’s not going to have an effect on electronics, anything that made of multiple materials, or anything that is large or depends on material strength. At least not until it graduates from the ‘ink jet’ sort of machine to the true ‘atomic replicator’ type. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/55 "2008-11-23T00:17:03Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Let me see if I can put this tactfully. It isn’t me who doesn’t understand, it’s you who is assuming I don’t understand. 😃 The plural of anecdote is not data, It’s hard to know _what_ you’re assuming with what you’re saying, it’s also pretty difficult to tell how you expect me to take what you’re saying. Don’t have a printer? one in 20,000 isn’t good enough? Worked in IT support as a qualification? What are you shootin’ at? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/56 "2008-12-03T04:34:39Z")
[New fabber machine built.](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081201110003.htm) > [@](#): > > Improving the productivity of machining processes is one of the basic requirements in every machine-tool engineering specification. The Fraunhofer Institute for Material and Beam Technology IWS in Dresden has integrated a laser module into the tool station of a milling spindle. > > The five-axis, computer-controlled milling center can now perform two jobs: Three-dimensional deposition welding using a 1.5-kilowatt diode laser and component finishing using 5-axis milling. The IWS’s manufacturing experts will be exhibiting their two-in-one machining solution on the joint Fraunhofer stand at the EUROMOLD trade show in Frankfurt from December 3 to 6, 2008 (Hall 8, Stand L113). ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460/57 "2008-12-03T04:44:27Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > The plural of anecdote is not data, It’s hard to know _what_ you’re assuming with what you’re saying, it’s also pretty difficult to tell how you expect me to take what you’re saying. > > Don’t have a printer? one in 20,000 isn’t good enough? Worked in IT support as a qualification? What are you shootin’ at? You’re not going to convince me that laser printers jamming isn’t a common occurrence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-autofabrication-on-the-verge-of-changing-the-world/473460.md?page=2)