# Is baptism 'swimming'   legally?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584>\
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion\
**Created:** [January 29, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584 "2019-01-29T02:08:46Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/1 "2019-01-29T02:08:46Z")

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If a body of water has a ‘no swimming’ law, would baptizing someone there be against the law. Asking specifically about NY and MA, but in general answers also appreciated.

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**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/2 "2019-01-29T02:23:16Z")

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Do you mean full-body immersion type of baptism or sprinkling a handful of water on the forehead baptism or something in-between? Different sects have different styles and customs.

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**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/3 "2019-01-29T02:27:31Z")

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> [@Alley\_Dweller](#):
>
> Do you mean full-body immersion type of baptism or sprinkling a handful of water on the forehead baptism or something in-between? Different sects have different styles and customs.

Lets just say in the tradition of John the Baptist’s baptism of Jesus which is understood to be full immersion.

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**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/4 "2019-01-29T02:28:30Z")

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I think if you’re not supposed to get in a body of water, say a fountain or a canal and the sign says no swimming, I don’t think you can baptize someone there. I take ‘no swimming’ to mean don’t get wet in this here fountain, for any reason. YMMV.

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**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/5 "2019-01-29T02:29:26Z")

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This is just a WAG, but I would assume that the intent of a no swimming ordinance would be to keep people out of the water entirely; so even wading in would be unacceptable.

However, the vast majority of Christians do not require full immersion for baptism, so just standing on the shore and scooping up a cup full would be sufficient.

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**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/6 "2019-01-29T02:30:44Z")

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> [@kanicbird](#):
>
> Lets just say in the tradition of John the Baptist’s baptism of Jesus which is understood to be full immersion.

Understood by whom?

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**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/7 "2019-01-29T02:33:52Z")

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> [@EscAlaMike](#):
>
> Understood by whom?

By me, I though that was pretty clear.

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**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/8 "2019-01-29T02:37:32Z")

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> [@EscAlaMike](#):
>
> This is just a WAG, but I would assume that the intent of a no swimming ordinance would be to keep people out of the water entirely; so even wading in would be unacceptable.

I know it is not enforced this way, wading is allowed in MA in areas designated as no swimming.

[quote[However, the vast majority of Christians do not require full immersion for baptism, so just standing on the shore and scooping up a cup full would be sufficient.[/QUOTE]

This neither answers my question nor helps the situation that related to immersion baptism of Jesus who is a Jew and who showed us the way. If you wish to talk about what religion Paul started so he fulfill his mission to spread the name of Jesus to the gentiles that would be another thread that you could start.

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**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/9 "2019-01-29T02:47:17Z")

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> [@kanicbird](#):
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> I know it is not enforced this way, wading is allowed in MA in areas designated as no swimming

If that’s the case, I don’t see how baptism could be considered “swimming” since the baptizer and baptizee would only need to wade in waist-deep to do a full immersion baptism.

\*Source: in the Baptist church I grew up in, the baptismal was only waist-deep.

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**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/10 "2019-01-29T02:57:07Z")

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Most Baptist churches have a baptismal font. The old country churches? Maybe not, they’ll use a local pond. But an urban area water fountain or other water site that is clearly signed up. No. Don’t go in without asking permission first. Don’t ask me how I know you can’t get in a fountain. It’s a great source of shame for me.😉

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**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/11 "2019-01-29T02:59:53Z")

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> [@kanicbird](#):
>
> If a body of water has a ‘no swimming’ law, would baptizing someone there be against the law.

Help us out here. What, exactly, does the law say?

Edit: eh, I thought this was GQ. Since it’s not, go ahead and argue the hypothetical. Still, the intent of the ‘no swimming’ law seems a fair question.

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**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/12 "2019-01-29T03:46:28Z")

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A notice that says “no swimming” isn’t a law. But, if it’s erected in a public place by a public authority, it almost certainly refers to or invokes some legislation which restricts what can be done in the place concerned. You’d need to read and interpret that legislation to establish whether any specified baptismal ritual would or would not be in violation of the law. The notice doesn’t help you there, beyond alerting you to the fact that they is or may be some applicable legislation that you need to investigate before fulfilling the Great Commission at this particular spot.

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**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/13 "2019-01-29T04:42:45Z")

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We have a pond on the back side of our place. Literally in the back 40. A county road comes close to it. It’s fenced and the old dirt road has a gate that is chained. We were warned early on by the county agent to keep it signed up, no swimming or fishing. For our own liability if someone came in and swam and got snake bit or drowned. I doubt there’s an actual law on the books for not swimming in farm ponds. Gotta do what you gotta do, if you own or are responsible for a body of water.

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**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/14 "2019-01-29T05:30:27Z")

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> [@Beckdawrek](#):
>
> Don’t ask me how I know you can’t get in a fountain. It’s a great source of shame for me.😉

Did it involve toenail painting?

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**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/15 "2019-01-29T05:33:48Z")

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> [@Beckdawrek](#):
>
> Most Baptist churches have a baptismal font. The old country churches? Maybe not, they’ll use a local pond. But an urban area water fountain or other water site that is clearly signed up. No. Don’t go in without asking permission first. Don’t ask me how I know you can’t get in a fountain. It’s a great source of shame for me.😉

Somebody needs to show **Beckdawrek** where the shame smilie is…

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**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/16 "2019-01-29T05:36:07Z")

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That would be nice. Hey, what are you saying? I SHOULD be ashamed? How dare you:)

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**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/17 "2019-01-29T07:59:39Z")

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⭕o:o:o:o:o:o\<— for **Beck**.

Back to the question and as others have said, one would have to look at the specific laws involved.

In Europe and Latin America, I’ve seen both places which said “no swimming” and others which said “don’t get in”; there’s also different danger levels in beaches, the “no swimming” level means it’s still ok to get in to waist-deep or so whereas the “don’t get in” level means any attempts at so much as getting your ankles wet may lead to being dragged away by a lifeguard furiously explaining that you’re such an imbecile he’s feeling tempted to let you drown yourself, except for some stupid reason it would actually be illegal of him to do so and he’s not planning on going to prison only because you’re too stupid to deserve living.

Back when public nakedness stopped being illegal in Spain, there was a homeless woman living in Barcelona who’d semiperiodically get dragged out of Plaça Catalunya’s fountain for bathing in it. The fountain did have a “no bathing” sign, with the reference to the appropriate local law listed in smaller letters. Cops would have a sudden urge to look anywhere else so long as all she did was dunk her feet, but once she took her clothes off and started washing them while showering in the jets they’d take her away.

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**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/18 "2019-01-29T08:42:03Z")

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Yesh, those fountain showers are quite arresting.

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**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/19 "2019-01-29T09:01:39Z")

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> [@Nava](#):
>
> ⭕o:o:o:o:o:o\<— for **Beck**.  
> … the “no swimming” level means it’s still ok to get in to waist-deep or so whereas the “don’t get in” level means any attempts at so much as getting your ankles wet may lead to being dragged away by a lifeguard furiously explaining that you’re such an imbecile he’s feeling tempted to let you drown yourself, except for some stupid reason it would actually be illegal of him to do so and he’s not planning on going to prison only because you’re too stupid to deserve living…

If there is a “no swimming” sign and also a lifeguard then surely it means “don’t swim now” (because there’s a shark? Because there’s an undertow? Because there’s a toxic waste release upstream? Because there’s about to be a surfing competition and you might get hit in the head by a surfboard?) but not “don’t swim ever” or else why would there be a lifeguard?

Baptizing isn’t swimming but if the reason for the swimming ban is toxic water it’s probably not a good idea. If you don’t know the reason you might want to assume toxic water. Note that geese will swim in toxic water so that’s no assurance, plus the water could be full of goose poop.

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**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-baptism-swimming-legally/828584/20 "2019-01-29T10:30:46Z")

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> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#):
>
> If there is a “no swimming” sign and also a lifeguard then surely it means “don’t swim now” (because there’s a shark? Because there’s an undertow? Because there’s a toxic waste release upstream? Because there’s about to be a surfing competition and you might get hit in the head by a surfboard?) but not “don’t swim ever” or else why would there be a lifeguard?

Yeah well, it’s on beaches. Usually the “don’t swim” is because the weather is crabby and/or the undertow is particularly strong; both the “no swimming” and the “don’t go in” may also refer to a specific stretch of the beach (too close to the rocks, or closed off for other uses). It still falls afoul of local ordnances if you do whatever the sign says not to, which would include getting in for a baptism when the sign says “don’t go in”.

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