# Is Batman Unique...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 31, 2002, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639 "2002-07-31T03:16:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/1 "2002-07-31T03:16:08Z")
I noticed Batman and Robin seem to have no special powers. Yes, they have a lot of specialized equipment and strength to scale walls, but no superhuman powers… Isn’t this highly unusual for Superheroes? Extra Credit: Why were the villians so weird with strange obsessions (i.e.: jokes, riddles, cats, etc.?) - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/2 "2002-07-31T03:46:35Z")
The Punisher is another non-superpowered character. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/3 "2002-07-31T03:56:16Z")
Nah. Let me think of a few… Green Lantern: without his power ring, he’s an ordinary guy. Iron Man: guy in an armored suit. (Pretty much anybody in an armored costume fits this bill.) Adam Strange: rocket pack and a gun. And a Zeta Beam. Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate: mystical spells, but no powers of his own. Conan: just a guy with a battle-axe. Hawkman/girl: artificial wings of some kind. Actually, many of the heroes who first appeared in the 30’s (in either DC’s Justice Society or Marvel [then Timely]'s Invaders). Those coming to mind include the Atom, the Sandman, Wildcat, Manhunter, the Guardian, etc. …ok, I can’t name any of the Invaders beyond Cap, the Torch and the Sub-Mariner. Nuts. Also, you inevitably have stories where “powered” heroes lose their abilities, but still triumph-over-insurmountable-odds-blah-blah-blah without them…proving that a superhero’s strength is his heart, not his skills. **Enola** has a point with the Punisher, but the Punisher ain’t no hero. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/4 "2002-07-31T04:17:28Z")
Green Arrow. Nightwing. The Star-Spangled Kid. Marvel’s Elektra. Is it just me, or does Marvel have a lot fewer unpowered heroes than DC? Rorshach. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lothos2002](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df788c/32.png) [@lothos2002](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lothos2002)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/5 "2002-07-31T05:37:20Z")
I don’t think any of these “unpowered heroes” qualify as “superheroes”, even though they are thrown in the mix. As for Dr. Strange, channeling mystical energy or whatever qualifies as extraordinary, so “super” applies. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/6 "2002-07-31T05:45:07Z")
Golden Age Sandman; Dr. Niles Caulder; Errata Stigmata; John Constantine _claims_ to have great power, but in every Hellblazer story I’ve read he succeds by conning the villains- I’ve never seen him _use_ any powers. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/7 "2002-07-31T06:52:25Z")
Batman wasn’t even unique when Bob Kane thought him up. Allow me to quote liberally from Steranko’s _History of Comics_ Volume 1: > [@](#): > > Bob Kane: _My first script was a take-off on a Shadow story. But I didn’t want Batman to be a superman; I wanted Batman to be hurt. Everything he did was based athletics, on using his astute wits and acute observation… I patterned my style of writing Batman after the Shadow… It was completely pulp style._ > [@](#): > > Simultaneous to Batman’s birth another hero of the same costume, creed and calling appeared on the scene (June 1939) in _Black Book Detective_, a leading crime pulp of the era. THE BLACK BAT starred in over 50 novels written by G. Wayman Jones. > > The Black Bat’s gear was uncannily like that of the Batman’s, including the cape and cowl. DC was shook up. “_There was a lawsuit almost pending,_” [Batman co-creator Bill] Finger reminisces. "_It was a wierd coincidence. Apparantly this character had already been written and on the drawing board… They were ready to sue us and we were ready to sue them. It was just one of those wild coincidences._ > [@](#): > > Utility belts had, of course, long since been common among pulp heroes like Doc Savage and Captain Hazzard. Earlier in the book, Steranko discusses another pulp character: > [@](#): > > The Avenger [debut Sept. 1936] was unquestionably one of the more unique characters to emerge from the pulp ranks… _The Avenger was an impressive figure. He had lost his beloved wife and small daughter in the callous machinations of a criminal ring - which loss had impelled him to dedicate his life and his great fortune to the fighting of the underworld._ The Avenger is closer in premise to the Punisher than Batman, but the basics are still there: lifelong dedication to revenging the loss of loved ones at the hands of criminals. If you want to see examples of non-super characters, you can pick up a few issues of DC’s 1980s series _All-Star Squadron_. The whole series was an exercise in renewing characters DC had created in the 1940s and had largely abandoned. Issue #60 (Aug. 1986) had two “group photos” of the Squadron’s membership; essentially every DC character of the 1940s (plus two created specifically for this series). The first photo contained the Golden Age Superman, Batman & Robin, Wonder Woman, etc. In the course of the story, there was a “time shift” in which all the effects of the so-called Crisis on Infinite Earths retcon took effect. This issue is significant as containing the last appearance of the Golden Age characters mentioned above. Anyhoo, in the first (pre-reboot) image, there are 44 characters depicted. I count 18 that I know for certain had no special powers or magical devices, relying only on physical abilities and conventional weapons or sci-fi gimmicks. There are 3 or 4 that I’m uncertain about, but the number of comic-book characters at the time who had no actual super-powers was significant. Batman happens to be (by far) the most successful. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/8 "2002-07-31T09:53:07Z")
What? No mention of Bucky Barnes? ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/9 "2002-07-31T11:55:04Z")
quote from **Bryan Ekers** > [@](#): > > [Batman co-creator Bill] Finger reminisces. … [hijack] question: Why isn’t Bill Finger as well known as Bob Kane? I’d never even heard of the guy until recently - I had always understood that Kane created Batman on his own… [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/10 "2002-07-31T12:15:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Green Lantern: without his power ring, he’s an ordinary guy. > Iron Man: guy in an armored suit. (Pretty much anybody in an armored costume fits this bill.) > Adam Strange: rocket pack and a gun. And a Zeta Beam. > Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate: mystical spells, but no powers of his own. > Conan: just a guy with a battle-axe. > Hawkman/girl: artificial wings of some kind. Actually, many of the heroes who first appeared in the 30’s (in either DC’s Justice Society or Marvel [then Timely]'s Invaders). Those coming to mind include the Atom, the Sandman, Wildcat, Manhunter, the Guardian, etc. Whether you get it from somebody else, or build it yourself, having powers that totally defy natural law, including Iron Man’s armor, counts as superpowers, even if technically they are posessed by the suit/ring/boxers than you. And whether you call it magic or “mutant powers”, its about the same bloody thing. > [@](#): > > John Constantine claims to have great power, but in every Hellblazer story I’ve read he succeds by conning the villains- I’ve never seen him use any powers. Why can’t a good con artist be greatly powerful? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/11 "2002-07-31T12:28:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WordMan \* > \*\*quote from **Bryan Ekers** > question: Why isn’t Bill Finger as well known as Bob Kane? I’d never even heard of the guy until recently - I had always understood that Kane created Batman on his own… > [/hijack] \*\* Because, for years, Kane was the only one credited. His name was on every Batman comic through the 60s at least. Finger was not. I was also under the impression that Kane did actually create the character, but Finger fleshed him out (adding Robin, for instance). Finger does deserve much of the credit, though – Kane’s Batman would have been long forgotten. Others who had no superpowers: Snapper Carr (OK, that’s cheating 🙂 ) Dr. Mid-Night Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. The Black Cat Black Canary Black Panther Black Lightning (is a pattern emerging?) Captain Klutz Howard the Duck (other than the obvious) Nightwing The Phantom And, of course, **The Spirit** ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/12 "2002-07-31T12:38:29Z")
Leave us not forget The Spirit. And sorry to disagree with you **Chuck** , but…well…I’m gonna disagree with your list. Black Canary (granted there are several Black Canaries) had, for 20+ years a sonic cry (which is back again) Black Lighting threw around lightning bolts for a chunk of his career, Dr. Midnite can see in the dark, Nick Fury is immortal or VERY long-lived (the Infinity Formula) Black Panther currently has all sorts of super-toys that were powered by vibranium (as opposed to Bat-Knockout Gas, which is at least remotely plausible) Nightwing got super strength in the dark (or, later after he was crippled) got mobility in the dark. and for one horrible period (of about 6 months, during and after the INVASION series), Snapper Carr gained the ability to teleport by snapping his fingers. There really aren’t all that many purely powerless characters. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Ambrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8c91f0/32.png) [@Ambrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrose)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/13 "2002-07-31T12:45:46Z")
How about Zorro? I don’t think Batman was intended to be original, but something about him resonates with young children in a way other heroes don’t seem to, imho. orphan–\>no pesky parents, but the drive for revenge, a channel for youthful angst rich–\>all those wonderful toys oh, did I fail to mention he is one bad@ss mutha? A winning combo to every young boy. ---
**Author:** ![Guy\_Propski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@Guy\_Propski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Propski)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/14 "2002-07-31T12:55:13Z")
Wildcat was a contemporary of the Golden Age Batman, and a member of the JSA. He was a boxer who’d donned a cat costume to fight crime. The original Atom was just a short guy with muscles (at least until he got his powers boosted years later). I’d still count the Black Canary. The sonic scream is no longer a part of her repetoire. There was also Batwoman and Bat-Girl (not to be confused with Batgirl) in the 40’s and 50’s. The Challengers of the Unknown has no super powers; they were just a group of scientists who got involved in all kinds of alien invasions and fights against supervillans. Ditto for Rip Hunter, Time Traveller. Adam Strange didn’t really have super powers (unless you count his jet pack). He was just really clever. Marvel’s Black Widow was an exceptionally good gymnast (and exceptionally hot!), but not superpowered. The Sandman (Golden Age, not Neil Gaiman’s) didn’t have superpowers. He did carry a lot of cool weapons like the Batman, including a gun that shot sleeping gas. Magnus, Robot Fighter was trained to physical perfection, but that’s about it. No super-soldier forumula, a la Captain America. Miss Fury, one of the first costumed women superheroes, had no superpowers (other than her super-kinky get up). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/15 "2002-07-31T13:09:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*And sorry to disagree with you **Chuck** , but…well…I’m gonna disagree with your list. \*\* I was talking about the original versions of the characters, who did have no powers. I don’t keep track of all the twists and turns afterward. Though Dr. Mid-Nite should have been left off. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/16 "2002-07-31T13:36:26Z")
**Guy** : IIRC, the Sonic Cry is back. **Chuck** : Fair enough! Although didn’t the NON Squardron Supreme (IE the original one from Avengers #71-ish) gain super strength in the dark? I don’t remember for sure, but I thought he did. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/17 "2002-07-31T14:31:59Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Jinx \* > \*\* > Extra Credit: Why were the villians so weird with strange obsessions (i.e.: jokes, riddles, cats, etc.?)_\* I think there’s something in the Gotham water…I dunno why, but Gotham DOES have some seriously mentally disturbed criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/18 "2002-07-31T15:32:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kat \* > **Is it just me, or does Marvel have a lot fewer unpowered heroes than DC?** I think it’s a function of the time. Many of DC’s hero concepts were created in the 40’s and based largely on the pulp heroes like Doc Savage, who had no powers. Even heroes with “powers” of the day were either mostly gadget heroes (like Green Lantern, Starman, or even the drug-taking Hour-Man) or mystics, both of which were prevalent in the pulps. There were exceptions, of course (Flash, Johnny Quick, and of course Superman). Most of Marvel’s stable of characters, with a few exceptions, came out of the 60’s in the wake of the success of DC’s Silver Age revival and the JLA, where pretty much everyone had powers, and so most of Marvel’s characters were given powers as well. The effect was multiplied when Stan Lee & co. realized that you didn’t even need an origin for super-powers; you could just say the character was a mutant. (Having just finished my Essential Ant-Man volume, I think that Lee made this discovery when he didn’t have enough room to create an origin for the Human Top.) –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/19 "2002-07-31T16:10:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\ ***Guy** : IIRC, the Sonic Cry is back. > \*\* This is correct. Dinah was dipped in a Lazarus Pit and now is fertile again and has her sonic cry back. ---
**Author:** ![TigoleBitties](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cab0a1/32.png) [@TigoleBitties](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TigoleBitties)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/20 "2002-07-31T17:11:16Z")
How about Deadpool (or does he have something other than a annoying way to really piss people off) Bullseye from Daredevil…Though he can make anything a weapon, it is within the realm of plausbility (I think) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639.md?page=2)