# Is Batman Unique...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 31, 2002, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639 "2002-07-31T03:16:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/21 "2002-07-31T17:21:33Z")
All these replies and no mention of The Green Hornet and Kato. Sheesh, there was even a TV series with Bruce Lee! Where are people’s memories? More recently, Bluntman and Chronic? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/22 "2002-07-31T17:40:12Z")
Aside from Dr. Manhattan, everybody in **Watchmen** (not just **Rorshach** is without supernormal powers (unless **Mothman** flies through his own ability – it’s never made clear). ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/23 "2002-07-31T17:43:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TigoleBitties \* > \*\*How about Deadpool (or does he have something other than a annoying way to really piss people off) > > Bullseye from Daredevil…Though he can make anything a weapon, it is within the realm of plausbility (I think) \*\* I thought Deadpool was a mutant. Plus, didn’t the experimental cancer treatment give him some funky powers? Bullseye-IIRC Bullseye’s skeleton is partially reinforced with adamantium. Um, lessee- Rick Jones as Bucky-RJ filled the role for a while. He had no powers at the time Arthur-He’s got the moth suit, but I’ve only seen him use it to fly. Falcon-Tony Stark designed a flying suit for him. Again, I don’t think it does anything besides flying. Black Knight- he’s got a sword and a fling horse. Or had. I think he’s currently got a lightsaber and some flying-mechanical-bull thing. Flaming Carrot-he’s got a nuclear powered superpogo. But mostly, he relies on a gun and his wits. Once FC sharpened the edge on a frozen pizza and used it to disarm a criminal-literally. Blue Beetle- I know he had a flying Beetle Mobile, but did he have any other gadgets? Mazing Man-definitely, no powers. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/24 "2002-07-31T17:47:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > **Black Canary (granted there are several Black Canaries) had, for 20+ years a sonic cry (which is back again)** There were only two Canaries. The first had no powers whatsoever. The second, her daughters, had a sonic cry, but also went through a long stint without any such powers. > [@](#): > > **Nightwing got super strength in the dark (or, later after he was crippled) got mobility in the dark.** ??? Are you sure that you’re thinking of the right hero? ---
**Author:** ![knarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@knarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/knarf)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/25 "2002-07-31T18:00:11Z")
I’m surprised no one’s mentioned Hawkeye yet, even though he did have a brief stint as Goliath. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/26 "2002-07-31T18:04:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\* > Nightwing got super strength in the dark (or, later after he was crippled) got mobility in the dark. > Fenris \*\* Wouldn’t that be Kyle Richmond AKA _NightHawk_ ? ---
**Author:** ![knarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@knarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/knarf)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/27 "2002-07-31T18:06:11Z")
> [@](#): > > - > > Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\* > > Nightwing got super strength in the dark (or, later after he was crippled) got mobility in the dark. > \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JThunder \* > \*\* > > ??? > > Are you sure that you’re thinking of the right hero? \*\* I think Fenris means Marvel’s Nighthawk. ---
**Author:** ![knarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@knarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/knarf)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/28 "2002-07-31T18:08:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\* > > Wouldn’t that be Kyle Richmond AKA _NightHawk_ ? \*\* Ugh, me post too slow 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![athene1765](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@athene1765](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athene1765)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/29 "2002-07-31T18:55:11Z")
Rorschach…not a hero. 🙂 I like the guy and all, but I can’t really call anyone in Watchmen a hero. Cracking good read though. John Constantine’s my favorite of the lot. Also not much of a hero – bit more of a jerk than anything else – but most of his point is that he doesn’t _need_ powers to do what he does. He just needs his attitude and confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Doubting\_Robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@Doubting\_Robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubting_Robert)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/30 "2002-07-31T18:57:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\* > > Blue Beetle- I know he had a flying Beetle Mobile, but did he have any other gadgets? > \*\* The second Blue Beetle had his aircraft (called the Bug), which had various attached gadgets (claws, etc.). He also had a stun gun of his own invention. The original Blue Beetle had a magical scarab. I haven’t read Azrael in a while, but, originally at least, he had no powers beyond his subliminal training (“the system”) and the gadgets in his costume. The Star-Spangled Kid (mentioned above) and his sidekick Stripsey had no super-powers although the former did eventually acquire a flying belt. The Spoiler has no super-powers. Booster Gold had no powers of his own, but did have some very useful gadgets, especially the flight ring and the protective force field. Green Arrow’s sidekick Speedy (later Arsenal) has no super-powers. Cave Carson and his team had no super-powers. The same was true for Rip Hunter and his team, at least in the older stories. Richard Dragon (Kung-Fu Fighter) and Ben Turner (the Bronze Tiger) have no super-powers. The same is more or less true for Lady Shiva, although her abilities both as a martial artist and a healer are well beyond normal human abilities. (On the other hand, she frequently does not qualify as a hero.) The Question has no super-powers, just a well-glued-on mask. Slam Bradley had no super-powers, but one could easily make the case that he was not a super-hero, or even a “mystery man.” ---
**Author:** ![Doubting\_Robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@Doubting\_Robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubting_Robert)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/31 "2002-07-31T19:15:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jinx \* > \*\*Extra Credit: Why were the villians so weird with strange obsessions (i.e.: jokes, riddles, cats, etc.?) > > - Jinx \*\* A. To keep them interesting. B. So you could tell them apart. Pick one or both. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/32 "2002-07-31T20:16:21Z")
FIrst, sorry for the confusion. Everyone is correct; I read “Nightwing” as “Nighthawk”…or something. In any case, I was thinking of the Marvel character. The third (and current) Nightwing has no super-powers. (For that matter, neither did the first or second Nightwing…in the correct environment.\* 😃 ) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doubting Robert \* > \*\* > The original Blue Beetle had a magical scarab. > \*\* Not quite. The SECOND Blue Beetle had the Scarab. Originally there was a Golden Age character called The Blue Beetle (odd fact: After Superman, he was the first costumed hero to get a title named after him…Bats was in DETECTIVE, remember) who had no powers other than a Captain America-esque suit of chain-mail that was bullet-proof. As the series progressed, he began to get super powers, thanks to an Hourman-esque dose of Vitamin 2X (“Good for you but DEATH to the forces of injustice!”). Apparently towards the end of the run, the book got weird and gross. Lots of loose women being murdered by peeping toms and such. Super-heroes and E.C. type shocksuspenstories didn’t mix well. The second Blue Beetle (also named Dan Garrett) with the “magic scarab” business came from a 1964 Charleton revival. My guess is that they were cashing in on the name, but didn’t want to be associated with the excesses of the previous book. In 1966, Ditko snuffed Dan Garrett and introduced Ted Kord. IMHO: Ditko’s costume for Kord is one of Ditko’s (and comic’s) best. Fenris \*Kal El, while in Kandor, and later, Ak Var(?), also in Kandor ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/33 "2002-07-31T20:43:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > I was also under the impression that Kane did actually create the character, but Finger fleshed him out (adding Robin, for instance). Finger does deserve much of the credit, though – Kane’s Batman would have been long forgotten. Going back to Steranko’s (a book no comic-lover should be without): > [@](#): > > Finger remembers Kane phoning to say that "_he had an idea for a character called Batman, and he’d like me to see the drawings. I want over to Kane’s, and he had drawn a character who looked very much like Superman with kind of… reddish tights, I believe, with boots… no gloves, no gaulntlets… with a small domino mask, swinging on a rope… he had two stiff wings sticking out, looking like bat wings. And under it was a big sign… Batman."_ > > Together, they developed the embryonic Batman. “_I got Webster’s Dictionary down off the shelf and was hoping they would have a drawing of a bat and sure enough they did. I said ‘notice the ears, why don’t we duplicate the ears?’ I suggested he draw what looked like a cowl. He experimented with various cowls. I suggested he bring the cowl nosepiece down and not show any eyes at all. I was very much influenced by The Shadow and Doc Savage, The Phantom, things of that sort._” > > Further alterations changed the Batman’s costume to the blue-black and grey outfit of today. > . > . > . > [Finger recounts] "\*Bob called me over and said he was going to put a boy in the story to identify with Batman. I thought it was a great idea. I went home and tried to think up names, dozens like Dusty and Scamp. When I went back, Bob and Jerry [Robinson, Kane’s assistant] informed me they already had a name. They’d decided to call him Robin. I always felt Robinson created him from his own name, ROBINson… ROBIN. > > “I went home to write the very first story.\*” Batman and Robin, essentially unchanged since 1940, can be considered the creation of Kane, Finger and Robinson, though Kane came up with the original idea. Finger is important as the first writer (including Batman’s debut in _Detective Comics_ #27), though Kane and Robinson did the distinctive artwork. Hmm… Batman and Scamp… ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/34 "2002-07-31T22:48:35Z")
Off the top of my head: **Moon Knight** - seems to me like Marvel Comics’ closest analogue to Batman. Costumed dude with lotsa props. I remember a small-time hero called **Frog-Man** who had nothing going for him but a goofy costume and some springy boots. **Daredevil** seems like a might close call to me. I mean, his only “power” is his radar sense, and old issues I have seem to indicate that _everybody_ has the radar sense, but very few people actually harness it. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t **Iron Fist** just a really well-trained martial artist, otherwise powerless? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/35 "2002-07-31T23:15:48Z")
I would say Doc Savage and his Fightin’ Five certainly fit the description of super-heroes without superpowers. Also, Shang-Chi, Master of Kung Fu, and Manhunter, a back-up character from DC Comics in the late 1970’s. I would nominate the original Black Canary because she was just a martial arts expert without the “Sonic Scream.” A couple of posters mentioned The Spirit. Eisner’s company also produced a comic about Lady Luck who lacked any powers beyond amazing curves and martial arts skills. I also seem to remember a 1940’s character named, I think, The Phantom Lady. She lacked any special powers beyond an enormous set of jugs and some martial arts skills. In his infamous book, “The Seduction of the Innocent,” Dr. Fred Wertham featured a reproduction of a cover with a trussed Phantom Lady as an example of “headlamp” art. I suspect that if we would do some research we would find a whole slew of Golden Age minor characters, like Quicksilver, who lacked special powers, but donned costumes to beat the hell out of evildoers. On the issue of John Constantine: Back when Rick Veitch was writing the series (issues 67-87), Constantine summoned a former foe from hell. I think this was in issue 84 or 85. Also issue 51 (or one of the issues after #50), written by the wonderful Alan Moore, hinted that Constantine could teleport. Max Torque: Iron Fist possessed the power to make the Iron Fist, a maneuver which caused his hand to glow red with energy. It seems to me that this counts as a super-power, as he could deliver blows far more powerful than those of other martial arts experts, even Shang Chi. Bryan Ekers: I disagree that the Avenger was closer to the Punisher than Batman. The Avenger always tried to take the bad guys alive, just like Doc Savage (although there were a few times, most notably in “The Munitions Master,” when Doc killed hordes of criminals as the lesser of two evils.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/36 "2002-08-01T00:14:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Max Torque \* > Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t **Iron Fist** just a really well-trained martial artist, otherwise powerless? You’re wrong. I-F can summon his “chi”, essentially concentrating all his mental and physical energies into his fist, giving the ability to smash through impressive objects, hence the name. If you buy into all the Eastern mysticism crap, one could argue this isn’t really a superpower, but when I see a guy punch his way out of an elevator car, my eyebrows are raised. **Peyote** : interestingly, the early Batman killed people too. Bringing in Robin as well as a policy that Bats wouldn’t use a gun eliminated this. Early Superman killed people, too. Writing out the casual killing was a major step away from the pulps that inspired the early comic-book characters, and the establishment of the Comics Code Authority made them even rarer. The Punisher was a large step back, and eventually the violence level creeped back up, helped largely by Alan Moore, John Byrne and Frank Miller. Just as well. Those dopey plots from the fifties involving aliens and time travel and whatnot were pretty damn silly. ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/37 "2002-08-01T00:15:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jinx \* > \*\*Extra Credit: Why were the villians so weird with strange obsessions (i.e.: jokes, riddles, cats, etc.?) > > - Jinx \*\* Because it gave the writers a way to show Batman’s detective/investigative skills. ---
**Author:** ![Narile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Narile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Narile)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/38 "2002-08-01T02:44:53Z")
It was always shown that John Constantine was a bit of a dabbler in the magic arts, not really powerfull, but pretty knowledgeable of what was going on. He’d not last in a stand up fight with a real mage, but knew enough to know when to duck and how to get behind said mage and demonstrate Brust’s Wizard adage.\* I remember one issue where he uses a minor spell to free some trapped spirits. Ah, speaking of John Constantine…don’t forget Ambrose Bierce ('They take away your normal outfit and all you get is the lousy trenchcoat.) (7 points if you can name which comic he shows up in. 🙂 ) \*[sub]No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/39 "2002-08-01T11:43:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Extra Credit: Why were the villians so weird with strange obsessions (i.e.: jokes, riddles, cats, etc.?) > > - Jinx Because they gave the stories an interesting visual hook (like all those giant props that Batman and Robin always seemed to be fighting around in the 1940s and 1950s). The idea of quirky villains seems to have been lifted from Chester Gould’s **Dick Tracy** , which was filled with eccentric (and visually striking) villains like Flattop, BB Eyes, Pruneface, Littleface Finny, The Blank, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639/40 "2002-08-01T13:36:11Z")
DC’s Guardian Marvel’s Cat and Hellcat (arguable…The Cat went through some scientific treatments to unleash the full potential of her womanhood or something and IIRC Hellcat somehow unlocked her own feminine potential by putting on one of The Cat’s old costumes…freaky) although I think Hellcat later turned out to be part demon or the daughter of Satan or some damn thing (and she had a “Shadow Cloak” for a while from the depths of which she could pluck weapons). Marvel’s Dakota North and her spiritual sisters in Fashion in Action (how’s THAT for obscure, Fenris?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-batman-unique/121639.md?page=3)