# Is beauty imaginary? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 2, 2019, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381 "2019-07-02T06:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/21 "2019-07-02T18:35:55Z")
**Machinaforce** , I sort of understand what you’re talking about, losing that special sort of connection to the world. Usually, I end up thinking about the universe, the size and grandeur of the cosmos and how miniscule and insignificant we are in comparison and yet, we can peer out and see and comprehend much of it on scales that no human could ever hope to traverse in a million lifetimes and it fills me with awe. Sometimes I go the other way and think about how small of a scale of things that we can study, time and distance at scales that are (in laymans terms) the refresh rate of the universe, we can study things that change the nature of their being depending on how we look at them and again am filled with awe. And we exist in that sweet spot where we can study and (eventually) understand all of it. That’s what helps keep the jade scales from my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/22 "2019-07-02T18:59:59Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It just popped in my mind, and kind of ruined things for me, but is the meaning and grandeur and majesty of life really just us projecting things onto the world that aren’t there? Like am I not really “connecting” to anything but just imagining I am? I mean it would make sense since not everyone reacts in the same manner to the same image or experience. It just makes me sad that the beauty and majesty I see in nature is really just me imagining things. Makes it feel cheap, and sometimes I just wanna cry from it. Cogito ergo sum. I think, therefor I am. It’s a pretty elegant “proof” that self exists. Beyond self, though, I don’t think there is any way to “prove” that anything else physically exists. Whether or not the physicality of a thing matters is doubtful anyway. That said, IMHO the things that we see and experience outside of self are real and physically present, ergo not imagined. I went to Mt. Rushmore recently. I believe that you, too, can go and see the same mountain I saw. Your perception of it, however, is completely subjective. That opinion and $6 will get you a coffee at Starbucks. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/23 "2019-07-02T19:01:13Z")
More like in the eye of the beholder. Give me Linda Ellerbee over any super-model out there. Give me the sharp crack of a rifle in the dawn of deer season over the birdsong around it. Give me an ancient structure in ruins over the biggest new millionaire house. I like what I like and call it beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/24 "2019-07-02T19:11:10Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Did someone just see _ **The Matrix?** _ No. Third season Star Trek. But there is a spoon. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/25 "2019-07-02T19:38:53Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Cogito ergo sum. I think, therefor I am. It’s a pretty elegant “proof” that self exists. Beyond self, though, I don’t think there is any way to “prove” that anything else physically exists. Whether or not the physicality of a thing matters is doubtful anyway. > > That said, IMHO the things that we see and experience outside of self are real and physically present, ergo not imagined. I went to Mt. Rushmore recently. I believe that you, too, can go and see the same mountain I saw. Your perception of it, however, is completely subjective. That opinion and $6 will get you a coffee at Starbucks. Actually that’s not proof, it’s just proof of thought. At best I can say there is a body and thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/26 "2019-07-02T19:55:27Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Actually that’s not proof, it’s just proof of thought. At best I can say there is a body and thoughts. You can’t say there is a body. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/27 "2019-07-02T20:39:16Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I’m not sure I understand that last paragraph. The one about Robert Pirsig? You should read his book, _Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance_. It’s written as a novel but it’s actually a thesis on what quality is and how one recognizes it. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/28 "2019-07-02T20:55:37Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > You can’t say there is a body. I can, just not a “self”. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/29 "2019-07-02T22:49:00Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > You can’t say there is a body. Are you not of The Body? LANDRU!! Get over here! ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/30 "2019-07-03T03:02:55Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > But there is a spoon. But where is the beauty of the spoon without the runcible? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/31 "2019-07-03T13:16:32Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Actually that’s not proof, it’s just proof of thought. At best I can say there is a body and thoughts. That’s why I out the word “proof” in quotation marks. It’s as close to a proof as you’re going to get in philosophy. > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > You can’t say there is a body. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > I can, just not a “self”. You can say it, but it has no basis in philosophy - which is, after all, what your question is about. If you subscribe to Descartes’s proposition, then thought indicates existence. Since one can only know their own thoughts, self is implied. Everything outside of thought - including body - could be merely perception, a creation of one’s thought. IOW, the ultimate “perception is reality”. For me, this is enough mental masturbation. I need to go think about a cigarette. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/32 "2019-07-03T17:27:48Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > You can say it, but it has no basis in philosophy - which is, after all, what your question is about. If you subscribe to Descartes’s proposition, then thought indicates existence. Since one can only know their own thoughts, self is implied. Everything outside of thought - including body - could be merely perception, a creation of one’s thought. IOW, the ultimate “perception is reality”. > > For me, this is enough mental masturbation. I need to go think about a cigarette. Congratulations, you have just passed sophomore philosophy 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Skies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skies)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381/33 "2019-07-04T02:14:58Z")
Well beauty is subjective and just because you find someone or something “beautiful” doesn’t mean that everyone will agree or “see it” and that’s okay. Time is technically not real but I can’t imagine life without it. And I can’t imagine living through life not finding anything “beautiful”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-beauty-imaginary/836381.md?page=1)