# Is being 1rst so much better than being last? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2014, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047 "2014-06-18T11:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/41 "2014-06-18T21:49:18Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I was thinking about getting an e-certificate from University of Phoenix in Open Heart Surgery and Refrigeration Repair. Are there any school/GPA equivalencies? E.g. it is tempting to suspect that a 2.5 GPA at MIT might be equivalent to a 3.8 GPA from DeVry in terms of the necessary knowledge, skills, and effort to achieve it once one is already in a program. Has anyone done any sort of formal equivalency mapping? Is this sort of comparison even meaningful? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/42 "2014-06-18T21:51:29Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > If a mechanic who graduated last in his class is working on your car, you might not get too stressed out; it’s annoying if your engine dies during your next commute, but it’s not the end of the world. > > But if you need a heart-lung transplant, will you really feel OK if your surgeon graduated last in his class? What you want is someone who: 1) does the procedure regularly and 2) has a good recovery rate. Surgery is an area where familiarity counts, where range of experience counts - and where survival rates, rates of complications, and completeness of recovery really matter. If those numbers were good, for the procedure that I needed, I would not give a damn about class standing. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/43 "2014-06-19T05:00:17Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > There is an element of regionality at play though. Harvard is Harvard, and is one of a handful of schools that carries that sort of cache…but in Podunk, Podunk U may be well respected, and first in your class there might be meaningful - and seen as far superior to South Podunk U. Show up in Boston with your law degree from Podunk U and it may not mean much, though. Well I know of one law firm here in Kansas City where they will only look to hire the top 10% of Podunk U while they will accept any graduate of Harvard or Yale law school. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/44 "2014-06-19T13:41:06Z")
2nd place is the first loser. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/45 "2014-06-19T14:27:02Z")
“I don’t have to outrun the bear. I just have to outrun you.” ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/46 "2014-06-19T17:54:35Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > In a race with eight runners, then this would obviously be true, but in a class of thirty, there may well be a high achiever declared as ‘first in the class’, but the rest would usually be lumped together and not ranked. > [@](#): > > It’s like the Olympics, if you made the team, you are already better than 99.99% of everyone else As long as we’re using analogies from sport, let’s look at bicycle racers: …The first 3 guys to cross the finish line get special awards , but the rest of the pack (called the peleton) is recognized as one single unit— in which everyone is equal. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/47 "2014-06-20T04:29:40Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > It’s like the Olympics, if you made the team, you are already better than 99.99% of everyone else. That is all logical and all and how one should look at it (hey, at least you made it there). But down deep that person still knows they lost the race. ad actually the Olympics is worse because your whole country sees you coming in last behind several other countries, some whom they hate. Its like going to the Super Bowl, but still losing. Like the Buffalo Bills that made it to the SB I think for 4 years but still never won. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/48 "2014-06-20T13:47:11Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well I know of one law firm here in Kansas City where they will only look to hire the top 10% of Podunk U while they will accept any graduate of Harvard or Yale law school. Yes, but what I was getting at is that there are only maybe ten schools with the reputation of Harvard or Yale where the degree will get you in the door almost anywhere - regardless of class ranking. Somewhere below that it becomes much more regional. In the Twin Cities, you don’t want to have gone to Hamline, but St. Thomas is pretty good. If you want to get a JD in the Twin Cities and then look for work outside the Twin Cities, you want the University of Minnesota (top 50 nationally) - not St. Thomas. Within the Twin Cities, someone who graduates from the top of their class from Billy Mitchell could conceivably be better positioned than someone at the bottom from St. Thomas, even though St. Thomas has a better ranked law school. (Or, if your kid gets accepted to Stanford or MIT, do what you need to do to get him there, but with the exception of a handful of schools - the school itself isn’t enough to make up for being lousy at what you do). ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/49 "2014-06-20T22:21:25Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Harvard pretty much gives out A’s for showing up to class; if you really screw up you get an A-. At least that’s what I’ve been told. Of course the hard part is getting in. > > Nuther fun fact; Wharton doesn’t release grade point average until 6 months after graduation - they want the students to not be too competitive with each other. (Or so I have been told) I don’t know about Wharton, but I do about Harvard. A colleague of mine had a Peirce instructorship there around 1990 and the chair told him that life would be much easier if he gave no mark below B+ and that any lower mark would require a report on the reasons. I guess that explains how W has degrees from Yale and Harvard. ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/50 "2014-06-20T23:38:38Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > It’s probably more commonly written as “1st”. though. If by “probably more commonly” you mean “absolutely always is,” then you are correct. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/51 "2014-06-21T00:01:02Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > I was never first in anything, except for top score in spy hunter at a bar in Philadelphia(and that only lasted 3 days), so my experience is limited. I don’t know whether to love you or hate you, Mr. Nylock! I have played many video games in my misspent youth (in the midwest). The only one I could play so well, that I could get bored or simply run out of time to play wa Spy Hunter (the original top down view game). It was My Game; after a few weeks, I never saw anybody play better than me. But still, I hardly ever cracked the top ten. I could never understand this! But now I know the truth! It was you, Mr. Nylock, roaming the country, posting high scores in the dark of night, then leaving the rest of us rubes to puzzle this out! Congratulations to you, Mr. Nylock, for enjoying and beating such a wonderful game! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/52 "2014-06-21T00:08:08Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > 2nd place is the first loser. “Show me a good loser, and I’ll show you a loser.” ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/53 "2014-06-21T00:24:01Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > What you want is someone who: 1) does the procedure regularly and 2) has a good recovery rate. Surgery is an area where familiarity counts, where range of experience counts - and where survival rates, rates of complications, and completeness of recovery really matter. If those numbers were good, for the procedure that I needed, I would not give a damn about class standing. As many have stated before, in every group, someone will be best and someone will be worst. It may be difficult to distinguish between the strengths of the very best, especially in complex abilities that have many facets, like brain surgery and rocket science, and like much of the other stuff everyone else does. Many good doctors are under-valued and many poor doctors are over-valued, especially in the judgements of patients (who overvalue bedside manner) and administrators (who value revenue generation). And it is unfortunately true that some poor performers can slip through to graduation- they may not even be on the bottom of their class, if they are sufficiently charming or well connected. There was a \*\*\*rumor \*\*\*at my school of a well connected student who was graduated on the explicit promise that they would not actually practice medicine. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047/54 "2014-06-21T00:32:31Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Brown used to be all pass/fail too from what I’ve heard. Principal Skinner: Mmmm, Brown. Heckuva school. Weren’t you at Brown, Otto? Otto: Yup. Almost got tenure, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-1rst-so-much-better-than-being-last/691047.md?page=2)