# Is being called 'not rational' an insult? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 19, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608 "2016-01-19T19:35:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/21 "2016-01-20T01:52:14Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > **Not rational** means only one of two things to me: > > [ul][li]You are suffering from mental illness or defect[/li][li]You are temporarily letting your emotions take primary control of your thinking and/or actions[/li][/ul] Note, the supervisor doubled down on his assessment but declined to provide the OP with the specifics or the details. (Q: Is somebody laying the groundwork for removing an employee from their position ‘for cause’? ) ---
**Author:** ![blueslipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@blueslipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blueslipper)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/22 "2016-01-20T09:43:58Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Hm, am I the only one who thinks that going to a message board to ask whether feedback on how you do your job from a superior is an insult is not the most rational course of action? Please tell me Wonko the sane, what is the rational course of action here? I should have just said ‘My hovercraft is full of eels’ In answer to some other posts- kunilou- you are insulting me. The call was waiting less than a minute. I am not nitpicking. What by the way is the correct use of ‘not rational’ here? as Hail Ants says- Not rational means only one of two things- You are suffering from mental illness or defect You are temporarily letting your emotions take primary control of your thinking and/or actions. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/23 "2016-01-20T10:08:58Z")
> [@blueslipper](#): > > Please tell me Wonko the sane, what is the rational course of action here? > I should have just said ‘My hovercraft is full of eels’ I don’t remember the details of the OP and I’m too lazy to scroll up and reread, but if your supervisor wanted you to take the call you should probably have taken the call. And when your supervisor criticized your decision making, who cares if that was an insult? Figure out a way to not have that situation repeat itself, either by convincing your supervisor what you did was the right course of action (although I guess that ship had sailed) or do what your supervisor obviously wanted you to do or figure out a way to do what _you_ think makes sense in such a way that your supervisor doesn’t notice or get annoyed by it. Maybe the supervisor meant it as an insult, maybe not. Maybe it’s objectively an insult, maybe not. Unless your contract has a “no borderline insults” clause, it doesn’t matter one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/24 "2016-01-20T12:36:48Z")
Fortunately, you’re [impossible to insult](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=680733). ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/25 "2016-01-20T13:14:46Z")
Is being called ‘not rational’ an insult? Yes, if you’re the sort of person who receives negative feedback as insults rather than opportunities to improve. I suspect what he actually meant is that (a) you were displaying a poor attitude towards customer service (and internal users are customers too) and/or (b) you were disrespectful in your response back to your team leader. I’m not sure why you felt you needed to start a new thread when you’ve already got an existing thread on this same issue. You give a pretty different impression of your team leader in the two threads. > [@](#): > > The person she hired has no experience, no knowledge of our job and no people skills. He also has no Team leader experience. Our team members have no time for him. He is just an annoyance because he does not know anything. He is also about 20 years younger than our youngest team member. Noone has any respect for him. A team leader who queries why an incoming call is not being answered promptly certainly does not fit with that description from your other thread. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/26 "2016-01-20T14:18:56Z")
As a general rule, being not rational is neither an insult or a compliment, it is simply a description of the sort of behavior being exhibited. For a simple example, in deciding what car to buy, it would be rational to weigh in factors like gas mileage, reliability, price, etc. but maybe one also have a distinct preference for color, or non-essential features like high-quality speakers or heated seats. There’s nothing inherently right or wrong about either approach, though arguably the “best” car is going to be some balance of both rational and irrational factors; after all, having some of those nice features can make a drive more pleasurable. Even in the realm of employment, rationality isn’t always the preferable thing. Sure, if you’re in a hard science or a highly logical field like programming, it is often valued more, but even in these fields, sometimes an irrational hunch or adjusting to fit people’s preferences makes more sense. In the particular case mentioned by the OP, I’m not so sure that insult is the right word as much as criticism. Taking it at face value, from a manger’s perspective, seeing something on the call board, an obvious item needing attention, while having a discussion with a coworker, and no context given on whether the discussion was work related or not and, if so, whether it was more important than the call board, in that situation, it very reasonably could be seen as not rationally considering one’s priorities. This is especially the case if the supervisor believed the discussion was not work related or not important and there’s concerns about meeting SLAs or perhaps if he has context that it’s a high priority issue or a VIP waiting. If there was a rational reason for continuing the discussion rather than doing the work, I think the best response isn’t to be dismissive by saying it’s not a big deal and someone else will get it (clearly not a rational response), which the supervisor is reasonably going to see as disrespectful, but to provide a rational explanation. If you believed it was the right action, perhaps enlightening him on the nature of the discussion and why it’s more important at this time would have been the right response, and if you were out of line, maybe discussing something not work related, then the rational response would have been to accept the correction of your supervisor for not properly prioritizing your work load. All of that said, even though “not rational” is possibly applicable here, it probably wasn’t the best phrasing to use. Again, taking things at face value, at least at the start of the interaction, he had reason to question the OP’s prioritization and, based on the response, could also reasonably question the OP’s attitude and/or motivation. Altogether, it seems like reasonable, though maybe not ideally stated, criticism that was poorly received, for which the supervisor is partially to blame due to poor word choice, and poorly responded to, which is entirely on the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/27 "2016-01-20T14:47:44Z")
> [@blueslipper](#): > > In answer to some other posts- > kunilou- you are insulting me. > The call was waiting less than a minute. Then add me to the "insulting **blueslipper** pile, because **kunilou** nailed it. > [@blueslipper](#): > > I am not nitpicking. What by the way is the correct use of ‘not rational’ here? > as Hail Ants says- Not rational means only one of two things- > You are suffering from mental illness or defect > You are temporarily letting your emotions take primary control of your thinking and/or actions. By your own admission in multiple threads: \*You hate your new team Lead. \*You will go to great lengths to prove that you are “better” than the new Team Lead. \*You show no respect to the new Team Lead \*You purposefully undermine the new Team Lead A clear cut case of definition #2. Except possibly for the “temporary” part. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/28 "2016-01-20T16:20:34Z")
I suggest not getting too comfortable in that cube. ---
**Author:** ![blueslipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@blueslipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blueslipper)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/29 "2016-01-20T20:53:23Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > I don’t remember the details of the OP and I’m too lazy to scroll up and reread, but if your supervisor wanted you to take the call you should probably have taken the call. And when your supervisor criticized your decision making, who cares if that was an insult? Figure out a way to not have that situation repeat itself, either by convincing your supervisor what you did was the right course of action (although I guess that ship had sailed) or do what your supervisor obviously wanted you to do or figure out a way to do what _you_ think makes sense in such a way that your supervisor doesn’t notice or get annoyed by it. > > Maybe the supervisor meant it as an insult, maybe not. Maybe it’s objectively an insult, maybe not. Unless your contract has a “no borderline insults” clause, it doesn’t matter one way or the other. I come to the SDMB with my concerns because I expect some intelligent people here. Can you just picture yourself at work - your manager calls you not rational. How would you react? Yes my work does have a code of conduct that prohibits employees insulting other employees. Ace309- I am happy to see that people look up my old threads. Thanks. Doctor Jackson - I hope you are really not a doctor. DO you know what ‘by your own admission’ actually means? One can always find workplace rants in the BBQ pit. I am amazed that here there are so many people that seem to think I have a great Team Leader. Do you know him personally? The person my manager hired as Team Leader has no experience, no knowledge of our job and no people skills. He also has no Team leader experience. Our team members have no time for him. He is just an annoyance because he does not know anything. He is also about 20 years younger than our youngest team member. Noone has any respect for him. Except here in IMHO… ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/30 "2016-01-20T21:14:17Z")
> [@blueslipper](#): > > I come to the SDMB with my concerns because I expect some intelligent people here. Can you just picture yourself at work - your manager calls you not rational. How would you react? > Yes my work does have a code of conduct that prohibits employees insulting other employees. > > Ace309- I am happy to see that people look up my old threads. Thanks. > > Doctor Jackson - I hope you are really not a doctor. DO you know what ‘by your own admission’ actually means? > > One can always find workplace rants in the BBQ pit. I am amazed that here there are so many people that seem to think I have a great Team Leader. Do you know him personally? > The person my manager hired as Team Leader has no experience, no knowledge of our job and no people skills. He also has no Team leader experience. Our team members have no time for him. He is just an annoyance because he does not know anything. He is also about 20 years younger than our youngest team member. Noone has any respect for him. > > Except here in IMHO… You’re being as rational in this thread as you were blowing your supervisor off. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/31 "2016-01-20T22:27:17Z")
> [@blueslipper](#): > > I was discussing something with a colleague when he walked over and told me that our call board showed one call waiting. I told me I was a aware of that. > [@blueslipper](#): > > I come to the SDMB with my concerns because I expect some intelligent people here. Can you just picture yourself at work - your manager calls you not rational. How would you react? > Yes my work does have a code of conduct that prohibits employees insulting other employees. Since I’ve already been accused of insulting the OP, I’m sure he won’t consider my comments valid, but here goes. For the record, I don’t know the OP, his Team Leader or even what industry he works in. For all I know, the Team Leader may be the most incompetent supervisor since Michael “You’re doing a heck of a job” Brown led the FEMA response to Hurricane Katrina. That said, one of the simple rules of the workplace is to not show up your boss. I believe his original comments to his Team Leader were not only insulting, but insubordinate. To do so in front of another employee was an additional insult. Furthermore, to challenge his Team Leader on a tangential issue while being reprimanded was, if not actually insulting, at least spectacularly clueless. And to bring it up again at a later meeting was needlessly confrontational. I notice the OP has never suggested that his conversation with his coworker was so vital that it couldn’t be paused and resumed later. I also do not see anything that suggests the OP attempted to explain his reasons for not answering the call. Rather, his insistence “One call waiting is no big deal - will almost certainly get answered by a colleague in a few minutes,” suggests a cavalier attitude toward customer service. How would the OP react if he learned he had been forced to stay on the line longer than necessary because “one call waiting is no big deal”? I know that I’d feel insulted. If there is a code of conduct that prohibits employees from insulting one another, I believe the OP was the first one to step over that line. As for the question, “How would you react?” – I would have answered the damn call. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/32 "2016-01-20T22:48:15Z")
> [@blueslipper](#): > > I come to the SDMB with my concerns because I expect some intelligent people here. Can you just picture yourself at work - your manager calls you not rational. How would you react? A few points: (1) If you are in an argument, and a large number of ostensibly intelligent people agree you did something wrong… What is the rational way to react? Or, put another way, if you did a literature review and found that a consensus already existed on a certain topic, do you accept that consensus? Nobody likes to accept that they are wrong or feel belittled, but… (2) You are focusing intently on your boss’s accusation that you are “not rational,” when in fact the correct word would have been “insurbordinate.” The details of the story you have provided indicate very clearly that you were wrong and your supervisor was telling you to do your job. I see no evidence that your bosses alleged incompetence has anything to do with the fact that you did not answer the phone and then argued with him when he told you to do so. Whether you were about to do it, or intended to do it, or don’t think it’s a big deal doesn’t change the fact that he is your superior. (3) Does a poor choice of words invalidate his criticism? That’s almost like an old joke… “Bob, you’re a drunken, illiterate moron and you crashed a bus of schoolchildren into a river!” And Bob says, “Hey! I’m not illiterate!” It sounds to me like you are missing the point. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/33 "2016-01-21T00:29:36Z")
Clearly the team leader was simply observing that you cannot be expressed in the form _p/q_, with p and q integers and q =/= 0. If he had said you were unreal, now… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/34 "2016-01-21T02:33:31Z")
> [@blueslipper](#): > > I come to the SDMB with my concerns because I expect some intelligent people here Who will pick you and your concerns apart. You know that will happen. Absent a full quote (as in did he say “you are not a rational person” or “that’s not rational” or “you’re not looking rationally at this”), the best case scenario I can come up with is clueless boss who does not know the proper words to use in the situation (a skilled boss would not go just “I have my reasons”). However you WERE wrong to blow him off about the call. And BTW of the list of objections to his unsuitability for the post, the bit about how he’s however many years younger than anyone else is utterly irrelevant and I say that as someone in my 50s. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/35 "2016-01-21T15:26:35Z")
> [@blueslipper](#): > > Doctor Jackson - I hope you are really not a doctor. DO you know what ‘by your own admission’ actually means? Maybe. Let’s see: I said: You hate your new Team Lead. You said: He is just an annoyance because he does not know anything. I said: You will go to great lengths to prove that you are “better” than the new Team Lead. You said: we know what we are doing. He does not have a clue. I said: You show no respect to the new Team Lead You said: Noone has any respect for him. I said: You purposefully undermine the new Team Lead You said: Now he wants to get involved with his little plans and ideas which we have no use for How’d I do? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/36 "2016-01-21T21:41:24Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Let’s see. > > Part of your job is to answer calls. > You’re talking to a colleague when a call comes in. > The call is holding long enough for your supervisor to notice it, notice you aren’t moving to take it, and to walk over and tell you. > You respond that you’re aware there is a call that you aren’t answering, even though your job is to answer calls. > Your supervisor then tells you your reply to him was not respectful. > Your response to him is to nitpick whether he used the term “not rational” correctly. > > Yeah, I’d say you weren’t being rational. QFT I’d like to add that you aren’t scoring any points with your colleagues either. “Let some other sap answer calls while I shoot the shit” will not endear you to your coworkers. In fact don’t be surprised if they tell you that they won’t put up with that kind of BS. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/37 "2016-01-23T02:59:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s insulting. Also proof that all Team Leaders are alike. Has the company been giving him some kind of management training or was he born an asshole? Why is he an asshole for telling the OP to get back to his job of answering calls instead of grabassing with coworkers? ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/38 "2016-01-23T04:13:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Why is he an asshole for telling the OP to get back to his job of answering calls instead of grabassing with coworkers? Perhaps you would enjoy [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=781629&page=2) thread. So just so I can get with the program, is **blueslipper** actually trying to ascertain the meaning of the term “not rational”? That doesn’t seem right, as it’s not a hard term to parse. I think what he really wants is validation that his actions were fine and his team leader is in the wrong. But he keeps harping on the \*usage \*of the word (and if the story played out like he says, it was used incorrectly). Now I’m confused, **blueslipper** , are you really confused as to whether the wrong label was applied to you or do you really want to know if it was wrong for you superior to call you out? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/39 "2016-01-23T12:57:52Z")
It’s quite simple. “You are not being rational”–possibly not an insult, but a description. “You are not rational”–insult. The actual reason why you were called “not rational” is completely irrelevant. Even if you think the boss is being 100% accurate, it’s still an insult. Of course, this has no bearing on whether what you did was a good idea. It was not. It is not reasonable to think you can challenge a boss like that, and it’s not reasonable to think a boss would think a conversation with a coworker was more important than your primary job. You were, quite frankly, being irrational. That doesn’t make your bosses comment not an insult, any more than calling someone a jerk isn’t an insult even if they are acting like a jerk. The insult may even be justified, but it’s still an insult. I’d argue your real problem is not irrationality, but a different set of priorities than the company has, and a lack of knowledge of how to respond to an authority. You can actually lose your job for the type of insubordination you showed. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608/40 "2016-01-23T13:20:52Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Since I’ve already been accused of insulting the OP, I’m sure he won’t consider my comments valid, but here goes. > > For the record, I don’t know the OP, his Team Leader or even what industry he works in. For all I know, the Team Leader may be the most incompetent supervisor since Michael “You’re doing a heck of a job” Brown led the FEMA response to Hurricane Katrina. > > That said, one of the simple rules of the workplace is to not show up your boss. > > I believe his original comments to his Team Leader were not only insulting, but insubordinate. To do so in front of another employee was an additional insult. Furthermore, to challenge his Team Leader on a tangential issue while being reprimanded was, if not actually insulting, at least spectacularly clueless. And to bring it up again at a later meeting was needlessly confrontational. > > I notice the OP has never suggested that his conversation with his coworker was so vital that it couldn’t be paused and resumed later. I also do not see anything that suggests the OP attempted to explain his reasons for not answering the call. Rather, his insistence “One call waiting is no big deal - will almost certainly get answered by a colleague in a few minutes,” suggests a cavalier attitude toward customer service. How would the OP react if he learned he had been forced to stay on the line longer than necessary because “one call waiting is no big deal”? I know that I’d feel insulted. > > If there is a code of conduct that prohibits employees from insulting one another, I believe the OP was the first one to step over that line. > > As for the question, “How would you react?” – I would have answered the damn call. All of this. Plus, even if he did call you irrational out of turn, sometimes, you just got to let shit go. This whole mentality of “I don’t take no BS” is a mentality best left for prison or a school yard playground. And NOT in a professional work environment. Good lord! If this is typical of the type of shit HR has to deal with on a daily basis, no wonder they are the way that they are. SMH. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-called-not-rational-an-insult/743608.md?page=3)