# Is Being Opposed to Interracial Relations Necessarilly Racist **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735 "2011-05-13T01:09:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/181 "2011-05-19T00:43:24Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Which claim? [/QUOTE] The following: > [@Acsenray](#): > > I suspect he’s coyly trying to bring up the claim that African-Americans are allowed to be racially exclusive without being labeled as racist, but that the same behaviour on the part of whites is considered racist. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/182 "2011-05-19T01:21:34Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Yes, I do believe all races and nationalities are equal in potential and should be equally treated by law and society and let to stand or fall by his or her own individual merits. Satisfied? But I proved that they aren’t treated equally by the law, which you ignored, and are probably intending to keep walking through your life looking down on blacks for being suspicious of just such a system. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/183 "2011-05-19T02:06:27Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > Or a lesser possibility, for Jews…my stepfather (who is Jewish and married my mom, a black woman) does not think it’s racist for jews to disapprove of other jews marrying non-jews because they’re such a small minority according to him. He thought it was okay for his Rabbi to not speak to my mom at THEIR WEDDING because of his disapproval. > > He doesn’t believe this about any other minority. He’s not a very logical man. Was your mother Jewish then? ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/184 "2011-05-19T02:19:09Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Was your mother Jewish then? I’m suspicious this is a joke I don’t get, but no my mother never became Jewish. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/185 "2011-05-19T17:36:43Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I’m suspicious this is a joke I don’t get, but no my mother never became Jewish. 😛 No, I wasn’t joking. Just curious because, if your stepfather was so upset about mixed marriages, then why would he marry a non-Jew? That doesn’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/186 "2011-05-19T18:04:21Z")
He didn’t say that his father was upset about mixed marriages. He said that his father said that Jews in general are justified in being upset about mixed marriages. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/187 "2011-05-19T18:09:41Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > He didn’t say that his father was upset about mixed marriages. He said that his father said that Jews in general are justified in being upset about mixed marriages. Ah. Okay. I misunderstood. :smack: That’s still pretty weird, though, not getting offended when people treat your wife like dirt. ☹ (I get what **rogerbox** is saying, just that if that were me, I’d be pretty hurt) ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/188 "2011-05-19T19:46:07Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Well, how about that claim? I brought up the issue straightforwardly with a linked essay by a black writer, but nobody seemed interested. I’m not sure it’s all that interesting or relevant. YMMV. Spike Lee covered some of this in Jungle Fever. The concept that one is “betraying” your race/class by marrying someone from the previous/maybe still is oppressive race/class. In the case of blacks in the US, what I’ve heard is a sense of betrayal when the black guy marries a white woman instead of a black woman given the current challenge of black single mother led families and attendent issues (and not to mention historic baggage). It’s of course much deeper and more nuanced than that, but in a nutshell that’s my understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/189 "2011-05-19T20:20:48Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Wait until you bring **Mrs.** Right, who happens to be a Platinum Blond, home to meet the parents… 🙂 I dunno, the fact that she is aready married may be a bigger stumbling block then the blonde hair. 😃 #1 does not need to be based in racism. You are free to make you own determination of preferences in a mate. Completely eliminating an entire racial group on the race basis alone, would be racist. #2 and #3 are racist. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/190 "2011-05-19T20:33:41Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > He didn’t say that his father was upset about mixed marriages. He said that his father said that Jews in general are justified in being upset about mixed marriages. From the Jewish perspective, the whole issue gets much more complicated. Jews are born not made, and only from the mother’s line. Anyone born of a Jewish woman is considered a Jew under Jewish religious law. So a Jewish man marrying a non-Jewish woman effectively kills off a line of Jewish decent. Also, when a Jewish woman marries out it significantly lowers the odds that the children will be raised Jewish and increases the odds that her children will also marry goy and end more lines. This means that when Jews intermarry the potential pool of Jews gets smaller. The religion essentially loses future members. When people of different races intermarry the children still keep a claim to both racial heritages. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/191 "2011-05-19T20:54:02Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > snip I’m still waiting for some kind of acknowlegement of my valid points from you btw. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Ah. Okay. I misunderstood. :smack: > > That’s still pretty weird, though, not getting offended when people treat your wife like dirt. ☹ (I get what **rogerbox** is saying, just that if that were me, I’d be pretty hurt) I believe he only found out about it later, not at the wedding, but he wouldn’t have kicked him out even had he known, because he doesn’t have a problem with that racist opinion (he doesn’t consider it racist as I said). If I found out even afterwards that someone at my wedding refused to talk to my wife at it because they didn’t approve of our race-mixing, I would call them and tell them off and then have nothing to do with them, myself. To give my stepfather credit, for all his flaws I wouldn’t put “racism” in the top 100. I think he thinks somewhat negatively about arabs but I tend to forgive people for resenting the group that shoots you with a rifle while you are trying to build them a school. > [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Anyone born of a Jewish woman is considered a Jew under Jewish religious law. So a Jewish man marrying a non-Jewish woman effectively kills off a line of Jewish decent. I know that the mother being Jewish is what makes one considered a jew, if so why does it matter if Jewish men marry goyim or not? The limiting factor is the jewish mothers, and their half jewish female children can still produce jews considered just as jewish, correct? It’s still racist but it should matter to jews less if the men marry Goyim following that logic, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/192 "2011-05-19T22:39:05Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I think he thinks somewhat negatively about arabs but I tend to forgive people for resenting the group that shoots you with a rifle while you are trying to build them a school. That was done by Arabs as a group, collectively? Was there a referendum? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/193 "2011-05-19T22:49:13Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I’m not sure it’s all that interesting or relevant. YMMV. Spike Lee covered some of this in Jungle Fever. The concept that one is “betraying” your race/class … I swear I’m not trying to stir up scheisse – but really, how is this not directly relevant to the OP. If you didn’t know me, but heard me say something like “a man of my race marrying outside the fold is a betrayer of his heritage!” would you really stop and ask “now waitamminit, are you white or black?” before deciding whether my attitude was acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/194 "2011-05-19T22:54:08Z")
**rogerbox:** Yes I have seen your points. I think this sort of crap by juries can be completely avoided if there was a mandatory sentencing law sentencing all first-degree murderers who are convicted automatically to death be he black, white, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, atheists, rich, poor, heterosexual, homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/195 "2011-05-19T23:33:03Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I swear I’m not trying to stir up scheisse – but really, how is this not directly relevant to the OP. If you didn’t know me, but heard me say something like “a man of my race marrying outside the fold is a betrayer of his heritage!” would you really stop and ask “now waitamminit, are you white or black?” before deciding whether my attitude was acceptable? Expressed myself poorly. It depends on if it’s “all things being equal, I’d prefer my child to marry someone from our culture/language/background/class/race/gender but what the hell I love my kid and I’ll lovingly accept whomever they want to marry” or “I’ll try to stop the wedding somehow 'cause me daughter isn’t going to marry a (insert blank here).” I don’t think this is breaking any new ground on the OP. So, if a black woman wants to silently lament a strong worthy brother marrying a white woman, it’s not necessarily racist. It \*could \*be but doesn’t \*have \*to be racist. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/196 "2011-05-19T23:42:20Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > So, if a black woman wants to silently lament a strong worthy brother marrying a white woman, it’s not necessarily racist. It \*could \*be but doesn’t \*have \*to be racist. If it’s because she’s a white woman, it’s racist. If it’s because she’s not a black woman, it might or might not be racist depending on the thoughts behind the sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/197 "2011-05-20T00:06:05Z")
In the [commentary](http://www.essence.com/relationships/commentary_3/commentary_jill_scott_talks_interracial.php) I linked to earlier, the (again, well-respected) author writes: > [@](#): > > When our people were enslaved, “Massa” placed his Caucasian woman on a pedestal. She was spoiled, revered and angelic, while the Black slave woman was overworked, beaten, raped and farmed out like cattle to be mated. She was nothing and neither was our Black man. As slavery died for the greater good of America, and the movement for equality sputtered to life, the White woman was on the cover of every American magazine. She was the dazzling jewel on every movie screen, the glory of every commercial and television show. She was unequivocally the standard of beauty for this country, firmly unattainable to anyone not of her race. We daughters of the dust were seen as ugly, nappy mammies, good for day work and unwanted children, while our men were thought to be thieving, sex-hungry animals with limited brain capacity. > > We reflect on this awful past and recall that if a Black man even looked at a White woman, he would have been lynched, beaten, jailed or shot to death. In the midst of this, Black women and Black men struggled together, mourned together, starved together, braved the hoses and vicious police dogs and died untimely on southern back roads together. These harsh truths lead to what we really feel when we see a seemingly together brother with a Caucasian woman and their children. That feeling is betrayed. Sounds to me it’s specifically because the woman’s white, at least in this author’s view. > [@China\_Guy](#): > > Expressed myself poorly. It depends on if it’s “all things being equal, I’d prefer my child to marry someone from our culture/language/background/class/race/gender but what the hell I love my kid and I’ll lovingly accept whomever they want to marry” or “I’ll try to stop the wedding somehow 'cause me daughter isn’t going to marry a (insert blank here).” I don’t think this is breaking any new ground on the OP. > > So, if a black woman wants to silently lament a strong worthy brother marrying a white woman, it’s not necessarily racist. It \*could \*be but doesn’t \*have \*to be racist. But it is, because the OP’s last two questions are: (2) Disapproving of others’ interracial relationships. (3) Wanting to ban or otherwise block interracial relationships. From what you say, the consensus holds that #3 is indisputably racist, but now #2 becomes more of a “maybe” situation? ETA: I’m not trying to play “gotcha” regarding any double standards, but investigating whether the issue might be more complex than we want to admit, all around. Some posters above seemed to treat this as an open and shut case, but I wonder whether it really is. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/198 "2011-05-20T00:13:10Z")
Missed edit window: when I say “but it is” above, I mean regarding breaking new ground vis a vis the OP. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/199 "2011-05-20T00:58:14Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > **rogerbox:** > > Yes I have seen your points. I think this sort of crap by juries can be completely avoided if there was a mandatory sentencing law sentencing all first-degree murderers who are convicted automatically to death be he black, white, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, atheists, rich, poor, heterosexual, homosexual. Okay, I don’t think it’s worth trying to enlighten you about anything anymore, this kind of thinking is just wrong for too many reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/200 "2011-05-20T15:29:47Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > **rogerbox:** > > Yes I have seen your points. I think this sort of crap by juries can be completely avoided if there was a mandatory sentencing law sentencing all first-degree murderers who are convicted automatically to death be he black, white, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, atheists, rich, poor, heterosexual, homosexual. You express some astounding naivete here, Qin, particularly if you think that rich and poor persons get anything like the same treatment in court. Anyway, what you suggest will, once it becomes commonly known, simply cause racist jurors to convict on second-degree murder rather than first in cases when they don’t want to send a particular person to the choir invisible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735.md?page=11)