# Is Being Opposed to Interracial Relations Necessarilly Racist **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735 "2011-05-13T01:09:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/121 "2011-05-16T07:20:46Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > Apparently wanting to ban interracial relationships is not racist because it prima facie does not involve overt hatred or superiority. Yet what other reason could there be for such a ban? Good question. Can the OP think of a non-racist reason to ban interracial relationships? If not, that answers that question. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/122 "2011-05-16T07:32:49Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > OK, I’ll say it. OP is a racist, simple as that, but thinks that you have to be even more out there than he is to count as a _real_ racist. IOW this is a classic "I am not a racist _but_ … " sentiment. Apparently wanting to ban interracial relationships is not racist because it prima facie does not involve overt hatred or superiority. Yet what other reason could there be for such a ban? The OP is 14, not 24. This is an opportunity to explain the reasons that each position is racist. Beyond that, we have a general agreement that racism is wrong and not to be practiced. In teaching situations it is appropriate to explain why that is. This is the place to explain that skin color is just a color and one isn’t prettier or smarter than any other color. This is the place to explain that genetics does not cause customs with which we are unfamiliar, that history, climate and other factors cause that quaint stuff we call culture, and that traditions must be respectful that other traditions exist and that we might need to change our traditions as much as others need to change their traditions. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/123 "2011-05-16T12:04:19Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Asiatic cultures. That wasn’t the context. _You_ brought up “Asian” in response to an issue of race (affirmative action),\* not \*culture. It’s disingenuous to now pretend you were talking culture all along. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/124 "2011-05-16T13:42:40Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I was under the belief that racism was when you believed that your race was somehow inherently superior in some way to other races. > > It seems that the word has devolved into meaning that you are a racist if you make any distinction whatsoever between people based upon race. There’s no “devolving” here. Racism never has had solely one definition. In my view, on of the most useful definitions of racism is a collection of interrelated beliefs (1) That “race” exists biologically rather than merely socially, (2) That “race” constitutes a genetically definable category (variety, subspecies) of human, (3) That “race” is determinative of some characteristic of a person (intelligence, ability, potential, morality, etc.), and (4) That one can make valid judgments and assumptions about a person based on “race.” ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/125 "2011-05-16T14:53:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > (1) That “race” exists biologically rather than merely socially I’ve never interacted with a racist before New Deal Democrat who actually implies that blacks are inferior because of biology, they nearly all ALWAYS hide behind “they don’t like the culture”. I think this definition is very out-of-date and doesn’t reflect the reality that nearly all people who can be reasonably argued to be racist don’t usually care about biology so much. I think “not liking a racial group” makes one a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/126 "2011-05-16T15:34:45Z")
Racism doesn’t require any actual admission of dislike. Just believing that race is determinative of some behavioral characteristic is enough. And, sure, they will hide behind social differences, but their attitude makes nonsense unless they believe that those differences are inherited biologically. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/127 "2011-05-16T15:43:12Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Just as the title says. > > For various subcases: > > (1) Simply personally not wanting an Interracial relationship > (2) Disapproving of others’ interracial relationships > (3) Wanting to ban or otherwise block interracial relationships. 😕 **Qin,** why do you even consider this topic **debatable?!** ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/128 "2011-05-16T16:23:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 **Qin,** why do you even consider this topic **debatable?!** Maybe playing a bit of devil’s advocate here, but why wouldn’t it be debatable – from a minority community’s standpoint? There was this [commentary](http://www.essence.com/relationships/commentary_3/commentary_jill_scott_talks_interracial.php) I’ve seen linked on a few news sites recently, apparently written by a fairly well respected black woman: > [@](#): > > You know the moment when you realize that fine, accomplished brother is with a White woman? Let’s call it “the wince.” Three-time Grammy Award-winning artist, writer, actress, philanthropist, mother and all-around Renaissance woman, Jill Scott gets to the root of our feelings on the matter in the April issue of ESSENCE… Do you think her position is not understandable, and therefore debatable? ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/129 "2011-05-16T19:18:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Racism doesn’t require any actual admission of dislike. Just believing that race is determinative of some behavioral characteristic is enough. That’s true, I wasn’t really trying to define racism per se, I was trying to give a brief definition that ignores “culture” which is what racists always use as the motive for their racist beliefs, very few think that different races inherently are inferior overall from what I’ve encountered. It makes their beliefs and the way they treat people of the group they dislike no less ugly when they think “\_\_\_ culture encourages (negative think racist person dislikes) so it’s only logical to dislike (group)” than “group I dislike is biologically inclined to traits I dislike”. Same result either way. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/130 "2011-05-16T19:24:32Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > very few think that different races inherently are inferior overall from what I’ve encountered. To put it bluntly, I think they’re lying–either consciously or not–when they say that they don’t believe that these negative characteristics are inherent. And, as I said before, the “it’s their culture” argument is essentially nonsensical. It’s nothing but an attempt to cover up their pig with what they perceive is a more rational, less loathsome, lipstick. > [@](#): > > It makes their beliefs and the way they treat people of the group they dislike no less ugly when they think “\_\_\_ culture encourages (negative think racist person dislikes) so it’s only logical to dislike (group)” than “group I dislike is biologically inclined to traits I dislike”. Same result either way. And what I’m saying is that it’s not just the same result. It’s actually the same thing. The “culture” argument is a red herring. They actually do believe that it’s inherited/inherent/biological. They just don’t want to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/131 "2011-05-16T19:27:04Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > OK, I’ll say it. OP is a racist, simple as that, but thinks that you have to be even more out there than he is to count as a _real_ racist. IOW this is a classic "I am not a racist _but_ … " sentiment. Apparently wanting to ban interracial relationships is not racist because it prima facie does not involve overt hatred or superiority. Yet what other reason could there be for such a ban? Now you’re libelling/slandering me. I do not believe in any of the propositions I stated, I merely was talking about if what other people believed was necessarilly racist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/132 "2011-05-16T19:31:35Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > OK, I’ll say it. OP is a racist, simple as that, but thinks that you have to be even more out there than he is to count as a _real_ racist. IOW this is a classic "I am not a racist _but_ … " sentiment. Apparently wanting to ban interracial relationships is not racist because it prima facie does not involve overt hatred or superiority. Yet what other reason could there be for such a ban? Calling the OP a racist is out of bounds for this discussion. Stick to commenting on the ideas and not the poster. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/133 "2011-05-16T19:34:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Calling the OP a racist is out of bounds for this discussion. Stick to commenting on the ideas and not the poster. In addition where did he get the idea that _I_ actually advocated those ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/134 "2011-05-16T20:03:34Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > In addition where did he get the idea that _I_ actually advocated those ideas? He jumped to conclusions. Lots of times people with–let’s say “unpopular”–opinions are reluctant to flat-out offer their opinion. Instead they’re “just asking questions”. And so it’s a familiar pattern for the racist, the truther, the Jimi-Hendrix-was-assassinated-by-the-CIAer, the anti-relativist, the creationist, to start out by asking questions about race, or 9/11, or Jimi Hendrix, or quantum mechanics, or evolution, and then to start arguing with the answers while carefully avoiding mention of their own idiosyncratic view. And all the while loudly insisting that they don’t know for sure what the real answer is, just that they know the official answer is wrong. So you can see how it’s easy for someone who’s been in a lot of internet bull sessions to assume that there must be some ulterior motive behind a question about race that has an obvious answer. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/135 "2011-05-16T20:09:54Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > In addition where did he get the idea that _I_ actually advocated those ideas? Or, the short answer: By not being an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/136 "2011-05-16T21:01:44Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > To put it bluntly, I think they’re lying–either consciously or not–when they say that they don’t believe that these negative characteristics are inherent. And, as I said before, the “it’s their culture” argument is essentially nonsensical. It’s nothing but an attempt to cover up their pig with what they perceive is a more rational, less loathsome, lipstick. > > And what I’m saying is that it’s not just the same result. It’s actually the same thing. The “culture” argument is a red herring. They actually do believe that it’s inherited/inherent/biological. They just don’t want to admit it. No no no, I agree with what you’re saying completely. But you can’t very well say, “You’re lying, I know what you REALLY think and it’s racist!” So IMO, saying you don’t like (group) because of culture scapegoat is good enough to be racist in my book. Even if you think they’d be just fine if they were adopted by white parents, that doesn’t make it magically not racist. IF they were being honest, which we both agree they aren’t. I’m basically arguing that we should make the definition wider, “thinks traits are predictable based on perceived race” is much too specific and a lot of the most vile racists I know could dodge this definition. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/137 "2011-05-16T21:03:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Calling the OP a racist is out of bounds for this discussion. Stick to commenting on the ideas and not the poster. Okay, his IDEA that asians all do well in America when they were persecuted worse than blacks ( 😕😕😕 ) due to an inferior black American culture is quite racist. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/138 "2011-05-16T21:34:14Z")
It might be racist. But to be fair, he just might be extremely ill-informed. His history on these boards suggests that it’s not unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/139 "2011-05-16T22:18:51Z")
He seems pretty smart for a kid so I find it highly unlikely he has never heard of the whole chattel slavery thing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/140 "2011-05-16T22:26:04Z")
I suspect he comes from a very close-minded environment in which he’s been spoon-fed a lot of misinformation. I think he really does believe that the treatment of East Asians in America is comparable to the treatment of blacks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735.md?page=8)