# Is Being Opposed to Interracial Relations Necessarilly Racist **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735 "2011-05-13T01:09:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/161 "2011-05-17T19:51:17Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Holy crap, Qin, are you completely disregarding the very real history of oppression and profiling that has happened in some of the inner cities that gave birth to the music you are alluding to? We are all witness to power struggles in society and if you are broad-brushing an entire race based on a sub-genre of music then while you are at it, malign the Irish, the Scots, the Appalachian region, and oh, yeah, every other cultural group which demonstrates subversion via art. > > Geez. How many people have to tell you yes, your OP is skewed racist before you hear them? > > And while we are at it, you are a couple hundred years late. The spirituals and work songs sung by slaves weren’t expressing happiness at working all the live long day. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > When you attribute this to race? Yeah, I’d say that’s bigotry. I can’t believe you don’t see it. I do not. I’m talking about Asian-American CULTURE and Black CULTURE. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > When you compare two CULTURES, it can be in the spirit of scientific enquiry, ethnocentrism, racism, nationalism, or any number of other things. > > When you compare two RACES, it’s pretty much racism. > > So talking about Asian-American vs. American Black attitudes towards the rule of law in its historical context = interesting discussion. Concluding that respect for law is better than entrenched disrepect for law = valid conclusion, though not absolute and I’m sure there would be a lot of dissent. > > Saying Asians (in general) are better than Blacks (in general) and pointing to a subset of the population (Korean-Americans or Chinese-Americans; American Blacks) is both racist and bad logic, as the part does not represent the whole. (And where do you put people who are both Black and Asian?) See above. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > What two cultures are you referring to here? Please tell me you don’t believe all Asian cultures promote hard work and obedience while…:shudders:…all Black culture does not? Can’t be what you mean, is it? I was being mildly hyperbolic, but I do mean in general black urban gangsta culture. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I see. You’re trying to draw a distinction between racial chauvinism and racial separatism. Well, guess what, you can’t do it and you ain’t the first to try. And I advocate neither. > [@rogerbox](#): > > Since when is ‘trust for police’ a virtue? When they are way more likely to murder your child for reaching for his wallet than a white person because of their skin color, explain to me why the police and the criminal justice system SHOULD be respected by their victims? > > One of my first memories ever is hearing my uncle moan while being beaten in his jail cell while handcuffed. His ‘crime’ was the kids continued to party loudly after the police told them to break it up. There is a disgusting history of police violence aimed at blacks in this country, that you would hold some blacks’ suspicion of the system against them shows youre either incredibly ignorant about it, or just too bigoted to empathize with a group you obviously dislike. Again I have nothing against blacks. And there is a difference between being wary of individual cops who are crooked/psychotic/sociopathic whatnot, and of the whole legal system and justice in the country. Hey, isn’t that generalizing and stereotyping. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/162 "2011-05-17T20:03:53Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Again I have nothing against blacks. And there is a difference between being wary of individual cops who are crooked/psychotic/sociopathic whatnot, and of the whole legal system and justice in the country. Hey, isn’t that generalizing and stereotyping. :dubious: I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt because I have asian friends who make the same idiotic claim you do that asians had it worse than blacks in America. I don’t think they are racist (all the time), just that they are brought up in households that don’t think highly of blacks, and it rubs off on them. So, I am going to ASSUME you do not know very much about the racial disparities in the criminal justice system. Please check out the facts on this page: > **[Home](http://deathpenalty.org)** > > “If you support the death penalty because you think that \[the victim families\] are ever going to be healed by the murder of another person, that isn’t healing, that’s revenge. And revenge isn’t actually that sweet.” Death Penalty Focus board member... It is not INDIVIDUAL BAD SEEDS who are racist cops and judges who persecute blacks in this country, it is SYSTEMATIC and if you are black you are just NOT going to get the same treatment in the criminal justice system, EVEN when adjusting for wealth, black defendants do more time for the same crimes, and are more likely to be sentenced to death. ALSO abhorrent is how the race of the VICTIM plays into the death penalty: > [@](#): > > " In cases where only one victim was killed and no felony was involved, those who kill non-Latino whites are over seven times more likely to be sentenced to die as those who kill African-Americans. > > ``` > In cases where only one victim was killed and no felony was involved, those who kill non-Latino whites are over eleven times more likely to be sentenced to die as those who kill Latinos." > > ``` This is a country that WITHIN LIVING MEMORY the police and fireman used FIREHOSES on peaceful protestors black and white who wanted to be treated with simple human dignity and equal rights for all. So I find it highly offensive that you think that black people being distrustful of police and the justice system is just something illogical and reflects badly on THEM, rather than on the racist police who shoot black people reaching for their wallets, and for racist juries and judges that sentence black people to DIE more often if their victim is WHITE than black or Latino. The criminal justice system needs improvement to address these blatantly racist disparities. Thinking the American criminal justice system is fair to your people when statistics say it ain’t so isn’t a virtue, it’s stupidity plain and simple. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/163 "2011-05-17T20:34:31Z")
**Qin** , I think part of the problem is you are using “Asian” as a shorthand for “Americans of comparatively recent Chinese, Japanese, and/or Korean descent” or something. Using that shorthand is pretty common, but it helps to pin down the terms at the start. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/164 "2011-05-17T20:44:02Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I do not. I’m talking about Asian-American CULTURE and Black CULTURE. > > See above. > > I was being mildly hyperbolic, but I do mean in general black urban gangsta culture. > And I advocate neither. > > Again I have nothing against blacks. And there is a difference between being wary of individual cops who are crooked/psychotic/sociopathic whatnot, and of the whole legal system and justice in the country. Hey, isn’t that generalizing and stereotyping. :dubious: Black urban gangsta culture is a very small subset of a culture which contains as much variation as every other race. And not all gangster rappers are black. Hell, even [Rage Against the Machine says “\*Some \*of those who work forces are the same that burn crosses”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PjrF-dDtj0&feature=related) Implying that all blacks in the US are wary of the whole legal system and justice here isn’t hyperbole; it’s ignorant and disregards the work done by African American police officers, politicians, lawyers, judges, and a certain President who serve to protect public safety, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Did it occur to you to research why some African American rappers write about mistrust of the police? Historically the African American race has received harsher treatment from police and the judicial system from the origins of this country to the present day. As I said earlier, subversion is often expressed through art, and the popularity of gangster rap in the last 25 years has called attention to the disparity in treatment of the races. Not all art or subversion has a positive, unifying message, but this country wasn’t found on homogeny, was it? Write a letter to Cube, Rage, Dre and ask what they hoped to accomplish with such lyrics. I’ll bet you’ll hear “equal treatment” and not whatever sinister motive you infer. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/165 "2011-05-17T20:58:34Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I do not. I’m talking about Asian-American CULTURE and Black CULTURE. As some here have been trying to explain, this is a bullshit distinction. There is no universally definable “Asian-American culture” or “Black culture” except to the extent that there are Asian-American people with cultures and Black people with cultures. The only real meaning these terms have is “whatever culture any Asian-American might have” and “whatever culture any Black person might have.” Since these categories have no truly generalizable parameters, what it really comes down to is “whatever characteristics I impute to people whom I think look Asian-American” and “whatever characteristics I impute to people whom I think look Black.” Back it up with loads of cultural stereotypes and confirmation bias and, there you have it. It’s all about skin colour. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/166 "2011-05-18T03:16:39Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > **Qin** , I think part of the problem is you are using “Asian” as a shorthand for “Americans of comparatively recent Chinese, Japanese, and/or Korean descent” or something. Using that shorthand is pretty common, but it helps to pin down the terms at the start. I apologize for that. In addition, a lot of people, it should be noted considere black to be an ethnicity as in “black churches” or whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/167 "2011-05-18T05:12:08Z")
**Qin** , if I were you, I’d quit while I was ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/168 "2011-05-18T05:33:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Calling the OP a racist is out of bounds for this discussion. Stick to commenting on the ideas and not the poster. Fair enough, I actually had second thought about this the day after I posted it; I seriously couldn’t remember whether I’d said the poster or the post were racist. So serious question: can I say that the sentiments in the OP were racist? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/169 "2011-05-18T05:40:48Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > In addition where did he get the idea that _I_ actually advocated those ideas? Because otherwise you would know the answers to your “questions” and thus not have needed to post them. OK then, I challenge you to post explicitly that you agree that all “races” (however you perceive that misbegotten term) are near as dammit equal in potential and capability in all endeavours, and in all rights due them. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/170 "2011-05-18T06:55:37Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > So a culture that promotes hard work and obedience to law is not better than a culture that in general encourages suspiscion of the police and even defiance of it and heroically portrays those who do it (via music)? Do you know what else Confucianism (which is basically what Chinese and Korean culture is based on) promotes? Misogynistic values. Blind obedience to authority. Class discrimination. Academic elitism. Anything outside of the norm is condemned. Also it’s silly to talk about Asian American culture as some sort of homogeneous entity. When you say Asian American culture, you are including Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, Indians, Filipino, Indonesian, Vietnamese . . . it’s hard to generalize about all of these people. You seem to have a stereotypical image of an upper-middle class East Asian American family in your mind when you speak of Asian American culture, but it’s a very narrow view. ---
**Author:** ![Soapscumbuildup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@Soapscumbuildup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapscumbuildup)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/171 "2011-05-18T07:09:36Z")
(1) Simply personally not wanting an Interracial relationship: depends on which race (2) Disapproving of others’ interracial relationships: depends on which race (3) Wanting to ban or otherwise block interracial relationships. depends on which race 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/172 "2011-05-18T08:00:03Z")
> [@Soapscumbuildup](#): > > depends on which race > 😕 Care to elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/173 "2011-05-18T10:31:29Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Qin** , if I were you, I’d quit while I was ahead. _Ahead_? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/174 "2011-05-18T15:07:56Z")
> [@Soapscumbuildup](#): > > (1) Simply personally not wanting an Interracial relationship: depends on which race > (2) Disapproving of others’ interracial relationships: depends on which race > (3) Wanting to ban or otherwise block interracial relationships. depends on which race > 😕 What? What do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/175 "2011-05-18T15:17:59Z")
I suspect he’s coyly trying to bring up the claim that African-Americans are allowed to be racially exclusive without being labeled as racist, but that the same behaviour on the part of whites is considered racist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/176 "2011-05-18T15:23:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I suspect he’s coyly trying to bring up the claim that African-Americans are allowed to be racially exclusive without being labeled as racist, but that the same behaviour on the part of whites is considered racist. Seconded. So some elaboration would be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/177 "2011-05-18T16:16:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I suspect he’s coyly trying to bring up the claim that African-Americans are allowed to be racially exclusive without being labeled as racist, but that the same behaviour on the part of whites is considered racist. Or a lesser possibility, for Jews…my stepfather (who is Jewish and married my mom, a black woman) does not think it’s racist for jews to disapprove of other jews marrying non-jews because they’re such a small minority according to him. He thought it was okay for his Rabbi to not speak to my mom at THEIR WEDDING because of his disapproval. He doesn’t believe this about any other minority. He’s not a very logical man. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/178 "2011-05-18T22:33:31Z")
Well, how about that claim? I brought up the issue straightforwardly with a linked essay by a black writer, but nobody seemed interested. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/179 "2011-05-18T22:57:35Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > Because otherwise you would know the answers to your “questions” and thus not have needed to post them. > > OK then, I challenge you to post explicitly that you agree that all “races” (however you perceive that misbegotten term) are near as dammit equal in potential and capability in all endeavours, and in all rights due them. Yes, I do believe all races and nationalities are equal in potential and should be equally treated by law and society and let to stand or fall by his or her own individual merits. Satisfied? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735/180 "2011-05-19T00:24:57Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Well, how about that claim? I brought up the issue straightforwardly with a linked essay by a black writer, but nobody seemed interested. Which claim? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-opposed-to-interracial-relations-necessarilly-racist/581735.md?page=10)