# Is being short (and male) so terrible? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 12, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870 "2020-12-12T02:47:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/21 "2020-12-12T19:04:03Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m 5’5", and I’ve got [a lot of easy settings on my life](https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/): white, male, grew up in a family with educated parents who themselves got financial help from their parents, American citizen, straight, cis, raised in the dominant religion in my culture, etc. So I’m not gonna complain about the hand I got dealt. > […] > Psychologically, the shit I caught as a very short boy growing up in the eighties was pretty significant. Dating was really difficult for me, and I think height was a piece of that. 5’5" isn’t terrible, but AFAICT it’s harder than 5’10" would be. Yes, all of this pretty much exactly. The thing to think about isn’t that being short makes dating impossible, but that it changes the probabilities. Being friendly, outgoing, and charming are all great ways to get dates. But will you have more luck being friendly, outgoing, charming, and tall, or friendly, outgoing, charming, and short? Being short in school doesn’t make it impossible to make friends, but it can make it harder. Some kids are putting together a sports team for recess, but they don’t pick you because you’re short, now it is harder to make friends with those kids, because they’re not spending time with you. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/22 "2020-12-12T19:32:52Z")
Old 20/20 clip interviewing women about their height preferences in romantic partners. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/AR3YR1ZTonc/hqdefault.jpg "20/20 Report - Are Short Men at a Disadvantage in Romance?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR3YR1ZTonc) ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/23 "2020-12-12T19:36:30Z")
I feel terrible. I wish I hadn’t brought this up. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/24 "2020-12-12T23:41:12Z")
No, don’t feel terrible. It lets us short people whine about it for a bit. On the serious side, I view it as fighting ignorance. I am sure there are lots of states of the human condition out there that I have no idea how they affect the bearers. I can’t come up with good examples, because the ones that I know make a difference aren’t examples anymore, because I know it’s a problem. _I_ have not taken any offense at the topic. When women would say they were not interested in dating me because I am too short (almost always said with the “6 foot+ please” type dating profile) I would be disappointed, but not really take offense, as we all have preferences and like what we like. What I would take offense to was the women who didn’t think they had a height requirement, because it had never occurred to them that men came in smaller sizes. The difference between “I’m into tall guys, what can you do?” and “I didn’t realize those things below 6 feet were even men!” ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/25 "2020-12-12T23:54:11Z")
> What I would take offense to was the women who didn’t think they had a height requirement, because it had never occurred to them that men came in smaller sizes. The difference between “I’m into tall guys, what can you do?” and “I didn’t realize those things below 6 feet were even men!” That’s funny! Okay, now I feel better. ---
**Author:** ![ArtBeforeScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@ArtBeforeScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArtBeforeScience)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/26 "2020-12-13T02:00:33Z")
It’s true that short men have a harder time hitting on babes. Evolutionary biology includes some claims that women go for status (money, brains, and power), men go for boobs (breeding ability). I don’t really love this theory but in my own personal observation as a female, it explains a few things. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/27 "2020-12-13T02:07:26Z")
One on my friends worked for her Mother who owned a very exclusive dating service. Her job was to read and input the after first date/meet the reason why it didnt work. By a high factor of 4-1 women gave the reason as the males appearance, (height being one of the most listed.) Men gave appearance as their primary reason much less often. Annoying or distracted were among the top reasons. Now I know, this is but one dating service, rather exclusive, more or less in one geographical area. But it seems to put paid to the idea that men are more into appearance than women. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/28 "2020-12-13T02:32:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > One on my friends worked for her Mother who owned a very exclusive dating service. Her job was to read and input the after first date/meet the reason why it didnt work. > > By a high factor of 4-1 women gave the reason as the males appearance, (height being one of the most listed.) Men gave appearance as their primary reason much less often. Annoying or distracted were among the top reasons. > > Now I know, this is but one dating service, rather exclusive, more or less in one geographical area. But it seems to put paid to the idea that men are more into appearance than women In general, women seem to work on their appearances more than do men after a certain age. A lot of men have let themselves go to pot and make no attempt to dress flatteringly or groom themselves better. A majority of women would probably prefer if the man was taller than her or at least the same height, at least until they got to know the man. (Though there have been numerous women on the board who say they are taller than their partners.) Many men lie about their height on dating profiles. If the woman then meets him and finds out that he lied, especially if he’s shorter than her when she wasn’t expecting it, then she’d be upset about that. I happen to be 5’1" nowadays so don’t really ever meet men shorter than me, but I have met men from dating sites who lied and said they were 5’5" but were eye-to-eye with me (I wear flats). Which still would have been okay, if they hadn’t also lied about other things of relevance. My ex-husband was 10 inches taller than me, and it was sometimes problematic. If I had a choice, I’d prefer someone closer to my size, all other things being equal. I know a fair amount of women my height, and none have a preference for tall men. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/29 "2020-12-13T03:31:53Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Old 20/20 clip interviewing women about their height preferences in romantic partners. Here’s the original story in extended form with much more context. Still not good news for short guys, but there’s additional info and reactions from the guys. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ZbG05ePWRQE/hqdefault.jpg "Height & Dating") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbG05ePWRQE&t=264) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/30 "2020-12-13T03:33:09Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I know a fair amount of women my height, and none have a preference for tall men. That they’ll admit. Also anecdote != data, but thanks for relating your experiences. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/31 "2020-12-13T03:39:51Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > That they’ll admit. Well, whatever their preferences, they happen to have relatively short partners. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/32 "2020-12-13T03:53:09Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Also anecdote != data A single anecdote is indeed _one piece_ of data. The idea that it isnt is taken from a misquote. [Don't forget: The plural of anecdote is data](http://blog.danwin.com/don-t-forget-the-plural-of-anecdote-is-data/#:~:text=You%20may%20have%20heard%20the,plural%20of%20anecdote%20is%20data.&text=All%20data%20is%20information%20surrendered). _You may have heard the phrase the plural of anecdote is not data. It turns out that this is a misquote. The original aphorism, by the political scientist Ray Wolfinger, was just the opposite: The plural of anecdote is data._ _Wolfinger’s formulation makes sense: Data does not have a virgin birth. It comes to us from somewhere. Someone set up a procedure to collect and record it. Sometimes this person is a scientist, but she also could be a journalist._ > **[Sorry folks, but the plural of anecdote is data](https://achemistinlangley.net/2019/01/21/sorry-folks-but-the-plural-of-anecdote-is-data/)** > > One of the reasons I started writing this blog was for science outreach. I like to discuss how we do science. Tonight I am going to go back to my roots and discuss an oft-misunderstood concept in s… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/33 "2020-12-13T04:27:24Z")
That the plural of anecdote is data is so absolutely wrong that popular usage tossed it in the garbage where it belongs and switched the phrase to be useful. If you bother to read your link all the way to the end, you’ll see that it doesn’t really back up the title. > So are all anecdotes useful? Absolutely not. But take a lot of observations that are similar in nature (or mutually-supporting) and suddenly you have the baseline data necessary to start developing a hypothesis. Now this may be true. It is also entirely irrelevant to the discussion. Scientists may use informal observations - anecdotes - as fuel for an hypothesis, i.e. a proposal subject to formal scientific investigation, which may or may not in the end provide confirmation. Nobody is talking about them, except for pedants with some weird ax to grind. In our reality, the adage is applied only to idiot amateurs who skip the hypothesis, testing, and analysis stages and go directly to “proof.” They do believe that anecdotes are data, and the more anecdotes the more proof. This is and always has been utter nonsense. All of us with actual brains and understanding of critical appraisal are right to call them out on their idiocy. The more of _that_ the better. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/34 "2020-12-13T04:31:02Z")
Data is made up of points or anecdotes. How do you get data except observations, aka anecdotes? What is a poll except 1000 anecdotes? However, both cites back me up. Lots of anecdotes do yield data. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/35 "2020-12-13T04:34:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Lots of anecdotes do yield data This is a huge hijack worthy of a thread. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/36 "2020-12-13T04:36:02Z")
It is indeed. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/37 "2020-12-13T04:45:21Z")
FWIW, I was totally with the doctor who wrote a best-seller, until he built the ski resort. Skiing is a total turn-off for me, no matter what a guy’s height. Also, FTR, while my husband is tall, the first time I saw him, he was sitting down. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/38 "2020-12-13T04:47:49Z")
Data is the plural of datum. A datum is a piece of information that is backed up by documentation, and has provenance. An anecdote is a story with no provenance, that may even be untrue. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/39 "2020-12-13T04:50:10Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But take a lot of observations that are similar in nature (or mutually-supporting) There’s no such thing as “mutually supporting.” You cannot use A to prove B, then turn around and use B to support A. This is what “begging the question” means. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/40 "2020-12-13T04:54:44Z")
Two out of three ain’t bad… I can say that as a somewhat tall man (somewhere between 6’0" and 6’1") height has never been an issue. I’m at that height where I’m considered “tall”, but where my height isn’t an inconvenience to myself or others. In other words, I’m either right at the top end of “normal” or the short end of “tall”- airline seats are ok, cars are generally OK, and I don’t have to buy clothes at the big and tall store (if I gained weight I would). That said, some of the most widely respected men I’ve ever known have been on the shorter side. One of my grandfathers was 5’7", a combat vet (USAAF B-17 crewman), and a blue collar worker, but he had a sort of dignity that commanded respect like few people I’ve ever met, short or tall. Similarly, I’ve known other men who weren’t terribly tall who were well respected because of their personalities and character. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870.md?page=3)