# Is being short (and male) so terrible? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 12, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870 "2020-12-12T02:47:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/41 "2020-12-13T05:04:45Z")
> [@bump](#): > > One of my grandfathers was 5’7", a combat vet (USAAF B-17 crewman), Crewman on a bomber was one of the areas where being under average height was an advantage, especially to fit into gunnery nacelles. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/42 "2020-12-13T05:50:50Z")
And being a tanker or submariner. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/43 "2020-12-13T16:01:51Z")
Definitely. On his own bomber, he was the crew chief/flight engineer and manned the top turret. But since he’d been assigned as a replacement after the First Schweinfurt/Regensburg Raid (he was a flight engineer/crew chief for A-20 Havoc light bombers originally), he had to pick up several missions to fill in on other crews to finish with his crew, and he was usually assigned the ball turret because of his height. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/44 "2020-12-13T16:16:49Z")
Not to turn this into a debate, but I have always found this double-standard interesting: if a man doesn’t want to date a woman due to her weight, then he is a disgusting, misogynistic, sexist pig who should be publicly shamed. If, OTOH, a woman will not date a man who has a height under 5’ 9", then that’s perfectly O.K. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/45 "2020-12-13T16:40:52Z")
Yes, I’ve encountered the same sentiment. Refer to my previous post about finding things offensive, it is one of the situations I’ve encountered which I do find upsetting. I’ve had this conversation, paraphrased and fictionalized: Me: I just didn’t find her attractive. Woman: It’s because she’s big, you’re a hater and terrible person. Me: Well, you won’t date me, how is it different? Woman: I don’t date short guys, it has nothing to do with your weight. Like I said, people like what they like. Now, there is a massive difference between swiping left on some dating site because the person isn’t attractive to you, and mocking or teasing somebody for being overweight (or short, or bald, or small breasted, or etc.) That’s also why I’ve limited most of my discussion to dating, because none of these preferences have any place in hiring, promoting, or most other non-romantic situations. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/46 "2020-12-13T16:53:37Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > If the woman then meets him and finds out that he lied, especially if he’s shorter than her when she wasn’t expecting it, then she’d be upset about that. This is why I never lied about my height on dating sites. It’s not like I can hide it. It’s also left me a way to feel superior when I would meet a woman from a dating site and she seemed bothered by my height–she clearly was too much of an idiot to even bother reading my profile, or she was just along for the free dinner. It could have been my personality that turned her off, though. > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Also, FTR, while my husband is tall, the first time I saw him, he was sitting down. I’ve had the opposite. Back when I was single (and so glad I’m not anymore) I had several instances where I was sitting down when I met a woman, and we seemed to hit it off really well. Then I would stand up and after that the tone of the conversation would completely change. There definitely were times when the height reveal didn’t change anything. Then the courtship could proceed or fail for all of the other reasons they can develop or fizzle out. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/47 "2020-12-13T17:21:45Z")
I dated very seriously a guy who was just about my height-- he might have been so slightly-- a half inch or so. I never really thought twice about it, then once I was getting dressed to go to the theater with him, something we hadn’t done before, and I put on shoes with heels-- not high, maybe 1 & 1/2", but the friend who was there with me suggested I might not want to wear heels when I was out with him. I didn’t understand why she’d say that; she had to spell it out. I waited until he got there to pick me up, and he said “Wear what’s comfortable.” So I wore flats. No one was going to see them in the theater, and I could slip them on and off, but the heels had a buckle. We broke up because he got serious too fast, and wanted to marry me when I wasn’t even 21. He ended up getting married about two years after we broke up, to a woman who was a lot shorter than he was (we were both about 5’5). I once had a serious crush on a guy I knew from SCA, who was probably 5’2, and really, really good-looking-- beautiful eyes, great hair, and a very athletic body (he must have worked out). He was in college, though, and I was still a senior in high school, something that hadn’t bothered several other guys I’d dated, but it bothered this guy, and I never went out with him. My height didn’t bother him, I’m sure, though, because he eventually started going out with someone taller than me. Skiing is still a deal-breaker, though. I’m firm on that. I’m willing to compromise on his being Jewish before I’ll give on the sports hobbies, cold weather sports in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/48 "2020-12-13T17:24:13Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > There’s no such thing as “mutually supporting.” You cannot use A to prove B, then turn around and use B to support A. This is what “begging the question” means. First, I didn’t say that line. I was quoting from Dr. Deth’s link. Even so, you’re using a different definition of “mutually supporting” than I’m used to. > That **support** which units render each other against an enemy, because of their assigned tasks, their position relative to each other and to the enemy, and their inherent capabilities. See also close **support** ; direct **support** ; **support**. In this case, two things both support a _third, larger, thing_. As in the case of scientific observation of individual points. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Data is made up of points or anecdotes. How do you get data except observations, aka anecdotes? Data comes from rigorously controlled procedures, not random stories with no larger structure. That’s why anecdotes are worthless as data. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/49 "2020-12-13T17:27:50Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Data comes from rigorously controlled procedures, not random stories with no larger structure. That’s why anecdotes are worthless as data. Which is exactly what I said? Was I not clear? that’s an honest question, because I thought I was very clear. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/50 "2020-12-13T17:43:51Z")
You did say that. But not in the post I was responding to. I disagreed with your usage of “mutually supporting,” not of “data.” I don’t understand how that is not clear. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/51 "2020-12-13T17:48:50Z")
I’m a bit over 5’10". All things considered, I wouldn’t want to be any shorter. Certainly not Kevin Hart short where I’m looking upwards to most adults. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/52 "2020-12-13T18:46:22Z")
I’m one of the founders of the Short Rights Movement (as you can see in this article [https://ralphkeyes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Playboy-Runts-Lib.pdf](https://ralphkeyes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Playboy-Runts-Lib.pdf), although I’m, actually 4’ 11", not 4’ 10"). The first thing you should know about common prejudices is that they aren’t passed on from parents to children (or from friend to friend) by having one person sit another person down and then showing them a Powerpoint presentation with a complete list of the biases they should have and what they should do about them. It’s more unconscious than that in general. Also, the levels of prejudice and the ways in which these prejudices are applied are quite varied. When I say that generally people are biased against women or people of other races or people of other religions or against homosexuals or transsexuals or short people or heavy people or any common victim of bias, I don’t mean to say that these biases are equally severe or affect the same areas of a person’s life or are in any other way precisely the same. Prejudices are a huge complicated topic, not something easy to explain. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/53 "2020-12-13T18:46:48Z")
I’m a little over 5’10", so not tall but not short, either. My experience from 30 years of dating is that most women (100 % in my personal experience, but that’s not data) prefer a man to be taller than they are. Like it’s important that there’s at least a little height difference in the guy’s favor. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/54 "2020-12-13T18:57:25Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Not to turn this into a debate, but I have always found this double-standard interesting: if a man doesn’t want to date a woman due to her weight, then he is a disgusting, misogynistic, sexist pig who should be publicly shamed. If, OTOH, a woman will not date a man who has a height under 5’ 9", then that’s perfectly O.K. True. And what makes it tougher for short men is that height isn’t something you can increase at will, whereas weight at least is something people can (generally) lose if they work hard at it. Losing 50 pounds in one year is tough but doable; gaining 5 inches is beyond one’s ability. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/55 "2020-12-13T19:00:06Z")
They do break healthy people’s legs to force the bones grow longer, though. I recall this was done at least in Korea, in the recent past. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/56 "2020-12-13T19:05:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > whereas weight at least is something people can (generally) lose if they work hard at it. > [@Velocity](#): > > Losing 50 pounds in one year is tough but doable Easier said than done. For some it is as hard to do as gaining inches. If you (the hypothetical you) won’t try hard enough to get taller to please me, I won’t work as hard as it would take for me to lose 50lbs to please you. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/57 "2020-12-13T20:35:25Z")
Meh. I’ve only dated 3 women seriously in my life, and one of them liked to joke that she was tall enough to eat spaghetti off my head. The first girl I dated, in high school, was about my height and maybe a little taller; my wife is a little shorter. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/58 "2020-12-13T21:36:56Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Not to turn this into a debate, but I have always found this double-standard interesting: if a man doesn’t want to date a woman due to her weight, then he is a disgusting, misogynistic, sexist pig who should be publicly shamed. If, OTOH, a woman will not date a man who has a height under 5’ 9", then that’s perfectly O.K. I heard women traditionally have sought men that are three things, at a minimum: he must be 1. taller 2. older 3. richer than the woman. If she makes more money or she’s older, are those likewise ok reasons to pass? In any case I’d say that when people (men or women) base decisions on things like that, it’s probably for the best in the long run that they keep looking, for both parties involved. As for the OP’s question it probably is a pretty tough thing for shorter men but in the long run maybe they find someone who appreciates them for things that IMO matter more. > **[Dudley Moore Susan Anton Stock Photo - Alamy](https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-dudley-moore-susan-anton-106007291.html)** > > Download this stock image: Dudley Moore Susan Anton - G4D1AK from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/59 "2020-12-13T21:45:07Z")
I think Randy Newman said it best. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/60 "2020-12-13T21:47:20Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > I heard women traditionally have sought men that are three things, at a minimum: he must be > > 1. taller > 2. older > 3. richer > > than the woman. I read that the old-fashioned mantra was the “Rule of 2’s”: Women want a man who is at least 2 inches taller, 2 years older, and earns $20,000 more per year than her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870.md?page=4)