# Is being short (and male) so terrible? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 12, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870 "2020-12-12T02:47:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/81 "2020-12-14T01:27:00Z")
It’s wrong for anyone to be irresponsible. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/82 "2020-12-14T01:38:45Z")
So the slight discrimination we shorter men face in various domains duly noted (agreed it’s real but relative to other privilege items not of big stature) it also must be noted that we also [tend to live longer](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0260106013510996). PDF [here](http://archive.wphna.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/12-Nutrition-and-Health.-Samaras.-Height-size-and-health.pdf). Reviewed there is stuff like > [@](#): > > Spanish study: A Spanish study tracked 1.3 million males from their youth to > death. The shorter men had the best survival rates (Holzenberger et al., 1991). > The lead researcher reports that the men lost 0.7 years per cm of increased height. In addition to the reasons mentioned in the article I’ve also heard that some of the reason is the … impact … of falls as we age. Hitting your head with 6 to 10 inches more distance to accelerate is more likely to cause a fatal head trauma. There is also this mechanistic bit in one population anyway - > **[Shorter Men Live Longer: Association of Height with Longevity and FOXO3...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4013008/)** > > To determine the relation between height, FOXO3 genotype and age of death in humans.Observational study of 8,003 American men of Japanese ancestry from the Honolulu Heart Program/Honolulu-Asia Aging Study (HHP/HAAS), a genetically and culturally... > [@](#): > > Height in mid-life is positively associated with mortality, with shorter stature predicting longer lifespan. Height was, moreover, associated with fasting insulin level and the longevity genotype of _FOXO3_ , consistent with a mechanistic role for the IIS pathway. I can also cross my legs during airplane flights (remember those?) and not worry about anyone putting their seat back, for comfort sake anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/83 "2020-12-14T01:39:30Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > They’re just cut different. I don’t know how exactly, but somehow it just doesn’t work. I suppose I just occupy a strange space somewhere in between teen boys and the smallest men’s clothes in standard sizes. Yep–until I started buying clothes online (Land’s End is my default), I was a miserable failure at finding clothes that fit. Banana Republic is about the only store I’ve ever found that stocks clothes my size. Department stores? Forget it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/84 "2020-12-14T01:40:10Z")
Try Uniqlo too! ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/85 "2020-12-14T02:51:43Z")
> [@ArtBeforeScience](#): > > It’s true that short men have a harder time hitting on babes. Evolutionary biology includes some claims that women go for status (money, brains, and power), men go for boobs (breeding ability). I don’t really love this theory but in my own personal observation as a female, it explains a few things. Thats got some truth to it, but there is also the issue of short term vs long term mating preferences. Are people looking for a one night stand or a partner to raise a family with? Some traits that make you more desirable for a one night stand (V shaped torso, dark triad personality traits in men; emotional instability in women) make you less desirable for long term mating. In long term mating, men value a womans earning potential more than they value it for short term mating. etc I am not sure what role male height plays in short term vs long term mating strategies though. I’d assume its something women looking for something short term care about more than the ones looking for a long term thing, but I don’t know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/86 "2020-12-14T02:59:55Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Try Uniqlo too! I’ll check it out! I’m not much of a style maven these days, though, so my polo-and-chinos Land’s End look, along with some sweaters, keeps me clothed. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/87 "2020-12-14T03:26:53Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > 5’9" is average height for a man, but many consider that ‘short’ I have an objective method to figure out whether someone is short or tall. If they’re taller than me then they’re tall. If they’re shorter than me then they’re short. It’s worked well for me my entire life. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/88 "2020-12-14T03:31:47Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I have an objective method to figure out whether someone is short or tall. If they’re taller than me then they’re tall. If they’re shorter than me then they’re short. Much as how George Carlin assessed the speeds of other drivers: “Anyone driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/89 "2020-12-14T03:36:25Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > ??? Only because we aren’t rude enough to say out loud what we are all thinking: that he dates young inexperienced women because he can’t hold a relationship on any other basis. Yup. I suppose msmith might travel in circles where he never hears that kind of shade cast of middle-aged dudes dating women in their twenties, but it seems the default rather than the exception in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/90 "2020-12-14T04:45:39Z")
Who’s to say it’s not the woman asking the middle-aged dude out? ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/91 "2020-12-14T06:24:15Z")
I’ve also heard the following - Women want men their age to 10 years older - Men want women a year younger to 10 years younger ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/92 "2020-12-14T08:18:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Who’s to say it’s not the woman asking the middle-aged dude out? And if the middle-aged dude is desperate or pathetic enough to accept, who’s to say it isn’t a fair deal? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/93 "2020-12-14T10:03:43Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Amen! There are “Big & Tall” stores everywhere, but there’s no such thing as the “Short & Slim” store for men. Not even “Boys Husky” fits. Actually, I hear you on this. I have very narrow hips for a woman, and women’s jeans don’t fit me well; men’s pants work much better, but if I but them from Walmart, I have to hem them. I have a sewing machine, so, no big deal, but sometimes I get a pile of things when I’m otherwise busy. I have looked on the internet for pants, and there are a couple of “short & slim” stores out there, but they are, first of all, rare, and second, for REALLY short and REALLY, REALLY slim. The _biggest_ waist they stock is usually 26. I’m a 30. The longest length is usually 28, which works for me, but sometimes they stop at 26. _Sigh_ Before I’d had a baby, I could buy pants in the boys’ department-- size 16. In any event, with the slim stores ending their waists at 26, and brick-&-mortar stores starting at 32, there’s a gap, and I’m in the gap. It seems to me that a lot of people ought to be, though. And the dearth of 28 length pants is a head-scratcher as well. I don’t know if it’s because men in that gap prefer to go to the boys’ department rather than mess with buying clothes online (if your waist is smaller than a boys’ 16, you probably won’t find a length that’s right for you), or men who are really a 28 or 30 prefer to buy 32, and wear a belt, again, so they won’t have to mess with online-- paying shipping, sending back stuff that doesn’t fit, limited choices. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/94 "2020-12-14T12:29:29Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > “Look at that loser who only dates 24 year old Victoria’s Secret models.” > – No one ever > [@Melbourne](#): > > ??? Only because we aren’t rude enough to say out loud what we are all thinking: that he dates young inexperienced women because he can’t hold a relationship on any other basis. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yup. I suppose msmith might travel in circles where he never hears that kind of shade cast of middle-aged dudes dating women in their twenties, but it seems the default rather than the exception in my experience. > [@Melbourne](#): > > And if the middle-aged dude is desperate or pathetic enough to accept, who’s to say it isn’t a fair deal? I’m not tracking. If I saw a 50 year old man on a date with a 25 year old Victoria’s Secret model, I’d wonder how he managed to pull that off. Based on that limited scenario, I can’t imagine thinking of him as desperate or pathetic—he’s with a beautiful woman. I can imagine 25 year old men and 50 year old women not liking it, though. I would wonder a few things. Is he having a midlife crisis? Does she have daddy issues? Granted, May-December romances have their difficulties. It’s also true that he may want a trophy wife or she may want be a gold digger, but that’s their prerogative so caveat emptor/venditor. And maybe they figure the extra work is worth it. But really I wouldn’t even assume everyone wants a relationship. Maybe they’re just dating, having fun, but value their independence and don’t intend to make anything permanent. They’re consenting adults and whatever good or bad comes of it, the consequences will be theirs, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/95 "2020-12-14T12:32:53Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > If I saw a 50 year old man on a date with a 25 year old Victoria’s Secret model, I’d wonder how he managed to pull that off. msmith didn’t describe a single date, or a single model: he said “who only dates 24 year old Victoria’s Secret models.” He’s describing someone who has a pattern. Personally I’m not gonna judge, either approvingly or disapprovingly. What other people want to do with their own sex lives with other consenting adults is radically Not My Business. So I’m not saying I think those guys are losers, or immature, or anything like that. They may be, they may not be. But msmith also said nobody thinks of them as losers, and that’s clearly not true. Lots of people think of them as losers. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/96 "2020-12-14T13:40:11Z")
Whenever the topic of short men comes up, I think about the guy who serves subpoenas to our office. I’m 5’5" and he’s shorter than me, but charming as hell. On days when we receive subpoenas, I somehow get that Sadie B. Hawkins song stuck in my head… ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/97 "2020-12-14T13:51:54Z")
Rilchiam, I hope you’re past regretting being the OP. I’m being educated and entertained by this thread. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/98 "2020-12-14T14:31:31Z")
Could this just be a fashion thing, affecting what is available off the rack? One woman I know, very tall+slim, said she has a much easier time finding clothes in Sweden versus in America. Women \>6 ft do exist. I know a guy with about a size 26-28 waist and 32 would definitely not fit right. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/99 "2020-12-14T14:35:57Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@Melbourne](#): > > > > ??? Only because we aren’t rude enough to say out loud what we are all thinking: that he dates young inexperienced women because he can’t hold a relationship on any other basis. > > Yup. I suppose msmith might travel in circles where he never hears that kind of shade cast of middle-aged dudes dating women in their twenties, but it seems the default rather than the exception in my experience. No, I don’t really hang out with middle-aged divorced women. 😉 Besides, you don’t know if she’s “inexperienced”. She could have been a total ho in college. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870/100 "2020-12-14T14:53:01Z")
Classy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-being-short-and-male-so-terrible/927870.md?page=6)