# Is Bergdahl being swiftboated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840 "2014-06-02T15:34:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/241 "2014-06-04T17:31:35Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > A prisoner exchange or exchanging these specific terrorists? Please enlighten us with your superior knowledge of the CV’s of Taliban prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/242 "2014-06-04T17:32:28Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Question: let’s do a theoretical (that is, forget Bergdahl for a second). Should US government try to get back, by exchanging several high-ranking enemy combatants, a US Army member who deserted? Not “alleged to have deserted” - but one that deserted, no ifs ands or buts. Or do US obligations to the man end with the desertion? If he was convicted in a court/court-martial of desertion, then probably not. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/243 "2014-06-04T17:35:06Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > …I don’t get your point. If something goes wrong–either because we don’t make the exchange and Bergdahl dies in captivity, or because we do the exchange and the five Taliban guys go back to waging jihad–Obama bears the brunt of it because it’s his decision. So if anyone’s likely to have really thought this through carefully, strictly from a political self-interest perspective, it’s more likely the president than the two senators. That’s why if I’m giving either party the benefit of the doubt, it’s the president. For some reason you’re elevating the opinions of the two senators above that of the president. From a political self-interest perspective, the Senators have to face re-election. This isn’t the best of deals. Bergdahl has been released. That’s a good thing. Five terrorists were released from GITMO that the Intelligence Committee has repeatedly said should not be released because they were dangerous. That’s a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/244 "2014-06-04T17:35:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If he was convicted in a court/court-martial of desertion, then probably not. There are no court-martials in absentia, AFAIU, so no such conviction is possible. But let’s say the through military investigation determined that it was a desertion. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/245 "2014-06-04T17:36:34Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Question: let’s do a theoretical (that is, forget Bergdahl for a second). Should US government try to get back, by exchanging several high-ranking enemy combatants, a US Army member who deserted? Not “alleged to have deserted” - but one that deserted, no ifs ands or buts. Or do US obligations to the man end with the desertion? Sure. The known deserter deserves to be judged and sentenced in US military courts. We don’t farm out our punishment to the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/246 "2014-06-04T17:36:45Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are no court-martials in absentia, AFAIU, so no such conviction is possible. But let’s say the military investigation determined that it was a desertion. How would they determine it was a desertion? For one thing, desertion requires 30 days absence – so doesn’t apply if one is captured after a day or two. It would depend on the investigation, the evidence, etc. I’m not sure how this could be answered. Maybe you can lay out an exact scenario. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/247 "2014-06-04T17:37:36Z")
They don’t do that; only a court martial determines that. So you’re willing to sentence someone to permanent exile, or even death, based on an indictment only, even if they wear the same uniform as you with your own flag on it. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/248 "2014-06-04T17:38:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How would they determine it was a desertion? For one thing, desertion requires 30 days absence – so doesn’t apply if one is captured after a day or two. > > It would depend on the investigation, the evidence, etc. It is a theoretical, remember? The Army has determined that the man has deserted. So - do you “leave him behind” or not? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/249 "2014-06-04T17:39:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It is a theoretical, remember? The Army has determined that the man has deserted. So - do you “leave him behind” or not? I don’t think I can answer this, because this doesn’t fit with my experience of how the military works. You’re describing a fictional military out of the realm of my experience. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/250 "2014-06-04T17:39:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Please enlighten us with your superior knowledge of the CV’s of Taliban prisoners. I was hoping you would answer my question. _A prisoner exchange or exchanging these specific terrorists?_ What are CV’s? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/251 "2014-06-04T17:40:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I was hoping you would answer my question. _A prisoner exchange or exchanging these specific terrorists?_ > > What are CV’s? _curriculum vitae_. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/252 "2014-06-04T17:41:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They don’t do that; only a court martial determines that. > > So you’re willing to sentence someone to permanent exile, or even death, based on an indictment only, even if they wear the same uniform as you with your own flag on it. Got it. There cannot be a court martial in absentia. Let’s say the man has left a note saying “I desert”, left a video saying the same thing, with a thumbprint on the note to make sure it was him, and has been seen, according to multiple sources, aiding the enemy. There is no court-martial, because the Army cannot get hold of him. So in this theoretical, do you “leave the man behind” or do you trade several high ranking enemy combatants to get him back? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/253 "2014-06-04T17:42:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think I can answer this, because this doesn’t fit with my experience of how the military works. > > You’re describing a fictional military out of the realm of my experience. This has nothing to do with “how military works”. As I said, in the theoretical, the man has left a note saying “I desert”, left a video saying the same thing, with a thumbprint on the note to make sure it was him, and has been seen, according to multiple sources, aiding the enemy. There is no court-martial, because the Army cannot get hold of him. So in this theoretical, do you “leave the man behind” or do you trade several high ranking enemy combatants to get him back? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/254 "2014-06-04T17:43:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There cannot be a court martial in absentia. > > Let’s say the man has left a note saying “I desert”, left a video saying the same thing, with a thumbprint on the note to make sure it was him, and has been seen, according to multiple sources, aiding the enemy. There is no court-martial, because the Army cannot get hold of him. So in this theoretical, do you “leave the man behind” or do you trade several high ranking enemy combatants to get him back? You’re not describing desertion, you’re describing treason. And if he shoots at American soldiers, then he’s an enemy combatant by definition. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/255 "2014-06-04T17:44:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’re not describing desertion, you’re describing treason. And if he shoots at American soldiers, then he’s an enemy combatant by definition. He was not shooting at American soldiers. Why are you inventing things that were not in the question? And - don’t you need a court-martial to determine “treason”? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/256 "2014-06-04T17:45:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There cannot be a court martial in absentia. Neither is it possible for this to happen: > [@you](#): > > But let’s say the through military investigation determined that it was a desertion. If you find you have to resort to imaginary alternate universes to support your dudgeon, doesn’t that tell you to pause and reconsider? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/257 "2014-06-04T17:45:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > _curriculum vitae_. Did **ElvisL1ves** leave you a note explaining his answer? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/258 "2014-06-04T17:46:47Z")
No doubt one of the congressional committees investigating All Things Bergdahl will come up with the answer for you. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/259 "2014-06-04T17:47:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are no court-martials in absentia, AFAIU, so no such conviction is possible. But let’s say the through military investigation determined that it was a desertion. I don’t understand this question. The court martial is the method by which the army determines if a soldier has deserted. If they haven’t had a court martial, then they haven’t determined anything yet. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/260 "2014-06-04T17:48:10Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > From a political self-interest perspective, the Senators have to face re-election. This isn’t the best of deals. Bergdahl has been released. That’s a good thing. Five terrorists were released from GITMO that the Intelligence Committee has repeatedly said should not be released because they were dangerous. That’s a bad thing. Whether or not they face re-election, Obama has more political skin in the game because he is commander in chief and has more personal authority in this matter than any individual member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. In any case, I still don’t understand how you infer from the fact that Feinstein and Chambliss disagreed with the president that they’re right and he’s wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=14)