# Is Bergdahl being swiftboated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840 "2014-06-02T15:34:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/401 "2014-06-05T14:11:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Someone who deliberately walks off and goes out seeking Taliban is not the same as someone who is captured in battle. You seem certain this is what happened, but you shouldn’t be. There is evidence he left the base on his own, but we don’t know why, we don’t know where he intended to go, and we don’t know other circumstances that might be relevant. ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/402 "2014-06-05T14:15:41Z")
swiftboat: when those who stay tell politically inconvenient truths about those who left ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/403 "2014-06-05T14:27:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Glad to see people are thinking twice about this guy. Wait until he’s exonerated then hold the parade. > [Bowe Bergdahl's Hometown Cancels 'Welcome Home, Bowe' Rally](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bowe-bergdahl-released/bowe-bergdahls-hometown-cancels-welcome-home-bowe-rally-n122841) Cancelled due to [hate mail](http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/Most-emails-to-Hailey-call-Bergdahl-a-deserter-261774561.html). Nice job, [morons](http://pamelageller.com/2014/06/report-abdullah-bowe-bergdahl-hometown-cancels-welcome-home-celebration.html/). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/404 "2014-06-05T14:46:17Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The constitution also gives to Congress the power to make rules for the regulation of the armed forces, however. That’s the power by which Congress has promulgated various other rules about the handling of Gitmo prisoners (the ban on the use of torture, the ban on transfer to the US, etc.). I don’t think the lines of constitutional authority are nearly as clear as you suggest. Sure they are. Congress has every right to forbid the President from ordering his troops to torture, because torture is not part of the power to make war. But they cannot tell how how to handle POWs that are captured on the battlefield, because those decisions ARE part of the power to make war. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/405 "2014-06-05T14:48:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Of course. All the soldiers from his unit that talked to the press say he’s a deserter. That’s like 10 people. That’s a lot. Good enough for me to ignore the constitution, as it should be for all right-minded people. Also, I have millions of people who say Zimmerman murdered that innocent black child, and that’s a lot more than 10, so let’s execute him too. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/406 "2014-06-05T14:52:20Z")
**Terr** : I’m not going to discuss whether anyone had a moral obligation to do anything, because I don’t believe we share an agreement on how to identify and analyze moral obligations. But from a perspective of the law: [ol] [li]Did the President have the legal power to do what he did?[/li][li]Is Bergdahl entitled to constitutional protections of any stripe now that he is in our custody?[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/407 "2014-06-05T15:37:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Did the President have the legal power to do what he did? Questionable - he himself claimed for years that he has no power without Congress to release Guantanamo prisoners, and he did break the Defense Authorization law on notifying Congress while doing what he did. > [@](#): > > Is Bergdahl entitled to constitutional protections of any stripe now that he is in our custody? Of course. Did anyone question that? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/408 "2014-06-05T16:04:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Is Bergdahl entitled to constitutional protections of any stripe now that he is in our custody? > > Of course. Did anyone question that? At what time and for what reason did he regain his constitutional rights that you earlier said he was not entitled to? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/409 "2014-06-05T16:09:10Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > At what time and for what reason did he regain his constitutional rights that you earlier said he was not entitled to? Can you specify, exactly what constitutional right did I say he was not entitled to earlier? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/410 "2014-06-05T16:24:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Can you specify, exactly what constitutional right did I say he was not entitled to earlier? Your position is that having a POW exchange made to free them isn’t a right a solider possesses, but rather a policy decision that the President can make or not make. Therefore, using unproven allegations to inform this decision-making process are not an infringement on a right, the way it would be if, say, the soldier were confined to federal prison on the basis on an unproven accusation of a criminal act. Is that accurate? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/411 "2014-06-05T16:28:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Can you specify, exactly what constitutional right did I say he was not entitled to earlier? You want the federal government to treat him as though he was guilty of desertion without affording him a fair trial. Question for you: is that permitted under the 6th amendment or not? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/412 "2014-06-05T16:33:48Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Your position is that having a POW exchange made to free them isn’t a right a solider possesses I thought we were talking about Constitutional rights, but anyway - yes, that’s correct. Having a POW exchange made to free them isn’t a right a soldier possesses. If you think otherwise, cite? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/413 "2014-06-05T16:36:31Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > You want the federal government to treat him as though he was guilty of desertion without affording him a fair trial. No, I don’t. If the federal government treated him as though he was guilty of desertion, he’d be shot, or in military prison for a long time. What I don’t want is trading five senior enemy combatants for someone for whom there is very strong evidence of desertion. Since such a trade is not a “right”, not trading them for him is not a violation of any right. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/414 "2014-06-05T16:40:28Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I thought we were talking about Constitutional rights, but anyway - yes, that’s correct. Having a POW exchange made to free them isn’t a right a soldier possesses. If you think otherwise, cite? No, I don’t; just making sure I had your argument straight. Your reasoning seems sound enough - having one’s POTUS decline to make a POW exchange isn’t equivalent to being denied a trial - though I personally would support a reasonable exchange for an accused deserter, or a convicted one (in some strange scenario where the soldier was convicted in a court, then wound up captured by the enemy). ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/415 "2014-06-05T16:40:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, I don’t. If the federal government treated him as though he was guilty of desertion, he’d be shot, or in military prison for a long time. What I don’t want is trading five senior enemy combatants for someone for whom there is very strong evidence of desertion. Since such a trade is not a “right”, not trading them for him is not a violation of any right. Would you trade prisoners in exchange for a captured POW who had never been accused of desertion? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/416 "2014-06-05T16:42:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Retired General McChrystal](http://news.yahoo.com/mcchrystal-on-bergdahl---we-don-t-leave-americans-behind--that-s-unequivocal-193638795.html), who has no political reason to carry the President’s water, agrees with General Dempsey: McChrystal started a “consulting firm” after he retired. He’s a lobbyist without having to register as one. And as far as leaving people behind is concerned there is no logical connection between that statement and releasing dangerous terrorists. That is the point of contention. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/417 "2014-06-05T16:43:10Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Would you trade prisoners in exchange for a captured POW who had never been accused of desertion? Depends which prisoners. I would trade prisoners for a captured POW who had been accused of desertion as well - again, depends which prisoners. The “price” for the deserter would be a lot lower. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/418 "2014-06-05T16:48:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And as far as leaving people behind is concerned there is no logical connection between that statement and releasing dangerous terrorists. That is the point of contention. Not when you bring up allegations and supposed notes. That has nothing to do with whether or not we should try and get him home, nor on how valuable we consider him with regards to a trade. Just as General Dempsey and McChrystal have said. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/419 "2014-06-05T16:51:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > nor on how valuable we consider him with regards to a trade. That’s about as ridiculous a statement as it gets. There are two POWs. One walked off the base looking for Taliban. The other fought off the enemy for hours in a remote outpost and was the sole survivor of that battle, taken prisoner. You can only trade one of them. Which one is more “valuable”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/420 "2014-06-05T17:00:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > One walked off the base looking for Taliban. You keep saying this, but there are only allegations at this point. We don’t know the circumstances, and we won’t know with any kind of confidence until (at the very least) he’s been debriefed, and possibly not until a trial/court-martial. As far as the decision-making process as to whether we consider him trade-worthy, these allegations are totally immaterial. It’s just amazing that you still don’t get this. You say “he walked off looking for the Taliban”… but there’s no way you could possibly know this beyond just a suspicion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=22)