# Is Bergdahl being swiftboated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840 "2014-06-02T15:34:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/421 "2014-06-05T17:02:30Z")
“He walked off the base…” that seems pretty likely. “…looking for the Taliban” Huh? You’re just guessing here. There’s no way you could possibly know why he walked off the base, if indeed he did. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/422 "2014-06-05T17:03:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You keep saying this, but there are only allegations at this point. We don’t know the circumstances, and we won’t know with any kind of confidence until (at the very least) he’s been debriefed, and possibly not until a trial/court-martial. > > As far as the decision-making process as to whether we consider him trade-worthy, these allegations are totally immaterial. > > It’s just amazing that you still don’t get this. You say “he walked off looking for the Taliban”… but there’s no way you could possibly know this beyond just a suspicion. If you prefer: There are two POWs. For one, a dozen of people in his unit say that he walked off the base and consider him a deserter, and there are reports from the Afghans that he went looking for the Taliban. The other fought off the enemy for hours in a remote outpost and was the sole survivor of that battle, taken prisoner. You can only trade one of them. Which one is more “valuable”? Tell me that they are both the same value, and you would just flip the coin. Go ahead. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/423 "2014-06-05T17:04:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If you prefer: > > There are two POWs. For one, a dozen of people in his unit say that he walked off the base and consider him a deserter, and there are reports from the Afghans that he went looking for the Taliban. The other fought off the enemy for hours in a remote outpost and was the sole survivor of that battle, taken prisoner. You can only trade one of them. Which one is more “valuable”? > > Tell me that they are both the same value, and you would just flip the coin. Go ahead. Based on this, they are both equally valuable. My duty and commitment to my fellow servicemembers demand this – I truly have no other choice. And I’m thankful that General Dempsey feels this way, and doesn’t devalue the worth of soldiers based solely on allegations. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/424 "2014-06-05T17:05:33Z")
From what I understand, Swift Boating is an attempt to denigrate the character of someone for political reasons, funded by the political enemies of the person being denigrated. There is no evidence that these soldiers criticizing Bergdahl have been orchestrated by Republicans. It’s just regular soldiers speaking out. As for the trade itself, the President is accountable if this comes back to bite us. I’m sure he considered that carefully when he made the decision. He admitted as much in his press conference. And hey, we got a better deal than the Israelis usually get. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/425 "2014-06-05T17:05:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “…looking for the Taliban” Huh? You’re just guessing here. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/06/04/exclusive-afghan-villagers-recall-when-bergdahl-stumbled-into-their-midst/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/06/04/exclusive-afghan-villagers-recall-when-bergdahl-stumbled-into-their-midst/) But The Washington Post has reached Afghan villagers who spotted Bergdahl shortly after he slipped away from his base. To them, it’s clear something was wrong with the American. And he seemed to be deliberately heading for Taliban strongholds, they say. “They tried to tell him not to go there, that it is dangerous. But he kept going over the mountain. The villagers tried to give him water and bread, but he didn’t take it,” said Ibrahim Manikhel, the district’s intelligence chief. “We think he probably was high after smoking hashish,” Manikhel said. “Why would an American want to find the Taliban?” Let me help you with the language here: “just guessing” means there is no evidence for the statement. That’s not the case here. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/426 "2014-06-05T17:09:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Based on this, they are both equally valuable. My duty and commitment to my fellow servicemembers demand this – I truly have no other choice. Again, that’s about as perverse an approach as I can imagine. I am glad you’re not the one making such decisions. And no, I don’t think General Dempsey would think that both are equally valuable if he had to make that decision, whatever the CINC is making him say. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/427 "2014-06-05T17:10:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/06/04/exclusive-afghan-villagers-recall-when-bergdahl-stumbled-into-their-midst/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/06/04/exclusive-afghan-villagers-recall-when-bergdahl-stumbled-into-their-midst/) > > But The Washington Post has reached Afghan villagers who spotted Bergdahl shortly after he slipped away from his base. To them, it’s clear something was wrong with the American. And he seemed to be deliberately heading for Taliban strongholds, they say. > > “They tried to tell him not to go there, that it is dangerous. But he kept going over the mountain. The villagers tried to give him water and bread, but he didn’t take it,” said Ibrahim Manikhel, the district’s intelligence chief. > > “We think he probably was high after smoking hashish,” Manikhel said. “Why would an American want to find the Taliban?” > > Let me help you with the language here: “just guessing” means there is no evidence for the statement. That’s not the case here. You said it as if it’s a fact, when there is not close to enough evidence to make that claim. Maybe he was looking for the Taliban, but a news report about the statement of some Afghan intel chiefs (after all, Afghan intel chiefs never lie, do they?) does not constitute particularly solid evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/428 "2014-06-05T17:11:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You said it as if it’s a fact, when there is not close to enough evidence to make that claim. Maybe he was looking for the Taliban, but a news report about the statement of some Afghan intel chiefs (after all, Afghan intel chiefs never lie, do they?) does not constitute particularly solid evidence. Are you walking back your “just guessing” comment? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/429 "2014-06-05T17:12:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I am glad you’re not the one making such decisions. Folks who agree with me are, apparently. Thankfully. > [@](#): > > And no, I don’t think General Dempsey would think that both are equally valuable if he had to make that decision, whatever the CINC is making him say. This is a total guess, and one contrary to the things he’s actually said. Based on what he’s said, he agrees with me. Based on [crickets], he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/430 "2014-06-05T17:13:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Are you walking back your “just guessing” comment? Just for you, I’ll walk it back to “mostly just guessing”. 'Cause we’re such great pals. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/431 "2014-06-05T17:14:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > McChrystal started a “consulting firm” after he retired. He’s a lobbyist without having to register as one. > > And as far as leaving people behind is concerned there is no logical connection between that statement and releasing dangerous terrorists. That is the point of contention. Magiver, I’m very thankful you, and others here, have no position of authority within the Department of Defense. You’ve your ideas/values and you’re welcome to them. But I’m thankful you don’t have any influence besides your vote. I don’t know if you’ve ever served, I’m guessing not. If that’s incorrect I apologize. The point is a lot of us who have served, not all but a lot of us, take comfort in the fact that our government will make every reasonable effort to secure our release if we end up in the enemy’s hands. I’m retired but I think the logic holds for those still in uniform. Bergdahl’s release just reinforces that trust. Even if you fucked up, we’re (the US) going to make every reasonable effort we can to secure your freedom. I don’t expect civilians to understand it. I’m hoping that they’ll respect it. Without going into details I was in a situation once in Iraq that could’ve very easily gone bad for me and the two other Soldiers in my HMMWV. We were separated for a short time and I personally thank two helicopter pilots (I’ll never know their names) for keeping us safe. Point being, “there but for the grace of god go I.” I’d like to think that had it gone wrong every effort would’ve been made to secure our release. Now seeing the effort made to get Bergdahl back I know they would’ve. Finally yeah, I know his own teammates are pissed. Can’t blame them. I’d be pissed too. You asked me (in the other thread?) if I’d be okay with my own children losing their lives while search for Bergdahl? Well I don’t have kids but I can tell you I was on far more pointless missions in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I might not have been pleased looking for him but I’d have known why it was important. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/432 "2014-06-05T17:23:54Z")
> [@Oliveritaly](#): > > Point being, “there but for the grace of god go I.” You mean you walked off the base, without weapons, and went looking for the enemy too? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/433 "2014-06-05T17:27:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You said it as if it’s a fact, when there is not close to enough evidence to make that claim. Maybe he was looking for the Taliban, but a news report about the statement of some Afghan intel chiefs (after all, Afghan intel chiefs never lie, do they?) does not constitute particularly solid evidence. For all _we_ know, it could have been a botched CIA attempt at planting a spy. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/434 "2014-06-05T17:33:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You mean you walked off the base, without weapons, and went looking for the enemy too? Meaning I wasn’t a prisoner of the enemy but somehow I think you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/435 "2014-06-05T17:50:35Z")
[This help alter anybody’s views](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/officials-threat-bergdahls-life-led-action) about notifying Congress? > [@](#): > > The Obama administration has told senators it didn’t notify Congress about the pending swap of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl for five Taliban officials because the Taliban had threatened to kill him if the deal was made public, three congressional officials have told The Associated Press. > > The threat, — not just concerns that Bergdahl’s health might be failing — drove the Obama administration to quickly make the deal to rescue him, the officials said Thursday. The threat was transmitted by Qatari officials at the height of the negotiations, they said. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/436 "2014-06-05T17:53:15Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You mean you walked off the base, without weapons, and went looking for the enemy too? Terr. Have you served? Love to hear your take on the matter. Were you in Afghanistan? Iraq perhaps? Maybe you’re a Vietnam vet? Welcome home if so! Perhaps your a Korean War vet? Dude, I’m honored to talk to you if so. It really was the forgotten war. Maybe you’re one of the few remaining world war 2 vets, my hats off. I met many of your fellow service members at the 60th anniversary of D-day in Normandy and am sad I can’t be there right now to greet your remaining comrades. What exactly qualifies you as such an expert in this matter? Were you a Boy Scout at least? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/437 "2014-06-05T17:55:31Z")
He’s in a _militia_, **Oliver**! A well-regulated one, too! How dare you. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/438 "2014-06-05T17:56:06Z")
How fucking pathetic have Republicans become? Some examples: Sarah Palin July 2009: “Todd and I are praying for Private First Class Bowe Bergdahl, his family, and all of his fellow soldiers who are putting their lives on the line to defend our freedom and protect democracy abroad,” Governor Palin said. “The capture of Private Bergdahl and the bombings in Jakarta prove that we have not defeated terrorism, and that radical extremists will stop at nothing to attack Westerners and our ideals.” Sarah Palin now: “No, Mr. President, a soldier expressing horrid anti-American beliefs – even boldly putting them in writing and unabashedly firing off his messages while in uniform, just three days before he left his unit on foot – is not “honorable service.” Unless that is your standard.” Allen West 2013: “Then there is Army SGT Bowe Bergdahl still held by the Islamic terrorist Haqqani network, probably in Pakistan, in the same place where Osama Bin Laden was hiding. This past POW/MIA national day of recognition, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel reiterated a pledge to secure the young Army NCO being held captive, but have there been any actions? Any time, attention, or even mention from the Commander-in-Chief? Nah, no camera highlights in it for him.” Allen West now: “Ladies and gentlemen, I submit that Barack Hussein Obama’s unilateral negotiations with terrorists and the ensuing release of their key leadership without consult — mandated by law — with the U.S. Congress represents high crimes and misdemeanors, an impeachable offense.” Kelly Ayotte May 2014: “As part of ongoing efforts to urge the Department of Defense to do all it can to find Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl and bring him home safely, Senator Ayotte worked successfully to include a provision in the bill that presses Pakistan to fully cooperate in the search for SGT Bergdahl.” Kelly Ayotte June 2014: “With 29 percent of former Guantanamo detainees having reengaged or being suspected of reengaging in terrorism, the administration’s decision to release these five terrorist detainees endangers U.S. national security interests. It also sets a precedent that could encourage our enemies to capture more Americans in order to gain concessions from our government.” Seriously. Let’s get him home, Mr. President. You did? Whatever for? You’ve got a town in Idaho that wanted to have a parade to honor a returning POW. Oh, no. The right wing Gestapo has to issue death threats to the townfolk for daring to honor one of their own. Oliver North, November 2011: “Today, I received from the National League of POW/MIA Families, a “Never Forget Bracelet” emblazoned with the name of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl. He was seized on June 30, 2009 in Afghanistan and is being held by the Haqqani Organization – a Taliban afilliated terrorist group – in northwest Pakistan. Sgt Bergdahl and his loved ones here at home deserve our prayers and encouragement until he is rescued or released. That’s what we do. We’re Americans.” Oliver North now: “Someone paid a ransom. Whether the Qataries paid it, or some big oil sheik, or somebody used our petrodollars, but there was a ransom paid in cash for each one of them, my guess somewhere in the round numbers of $5 or 6 million to get Bergdahl freed. I know that the offer that was on the table before was close to a million.” Yeah, Ollie. I know. Obama is a piker compared to you and Reagan. Five men is chump change. You would have given them 1500 missiles like you did with Iran. And you are privy to secret info about cash payments that nobody else knows. Right. Like you are SO welcome to sit in on these negotiations. Several Republican congressmen (and at least one Democrat) put out tweets celebrating Bergdahl’s release. Until the right wing smear machine kicked in, then they took down the good wishes. Seriously. Israel, with much more experience with terrorism than the US, trades 1000 prisoners for one of their citizens. Did that set off the Emergency Right Wing Broadcast System? Of course not. That’s Israel. They can do no wrong. When the deal went down, I expected some quibbling about the price. The degree of venom aimed at Bergdahl, no. Fucking pitiful. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/439 "2014-06-05T17:58:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Depends which prisoners. I would trade prisoners for a captured POW who had been accused of desertion as well - again, depends which prisoners. The “price” for the deserter would be a lot lower. So even being “accused” of desertion (without proof!) is sufficient to change your treatment of them? If you’re acting for the federal government than you have violated of the 6th amendment. Also, if your only concern is that we trade prisoners of the right value, you’ll be happy to know that someone ( who was in a position to know) decided that the American was worth more. You may disagree, but the American people didn’t vote for you. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/440 "2014-06-05T18:11:48Z")
> [@Oliveritaly](#): > > Terr. Have you served? Love to hear your take on the matter. Were you in Afghanistan? Iraq perhaps? IDF. And what is this - if you’re not a vet you can’t have an opinion on this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=23)