# Is Bergdahl being swiftboated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840 "2014-06-02T15:34:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/441 "2014-06-05T18:13:06Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So even being “accused” of desertion (without proof!) is sufficient to change your treatment of them? If you’re acting for the federal government than you have violated of the 6th amendment. How’s that, now? A negotiation over a POW exchange is in no way a “criminal prosecution”. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/442 "2014-06-05T18:13:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > He’s in a _militia_, **Oliver**! A well-regulated one, too! > > How dare you. Thanks Elvis. I get so pissed reading this crap that I appreciate it honestly. Made me laugh. I needed it. Magiver/Terr/others … It’s a bond you’ll never get. I don’t expect you too, you can’t really. You’re not part of it. The best example I can think of is a team mate yelling at another team mate because their urine smelled too strong. They weren’t drinking enough water. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/443 "2014-06-05T18:16:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > IDF. And what is this - if you’re not a vet you can’t have an opinion on this? Israeli Defense Force? You lost me there. Seriously I plead ignorance. What is that? Not a joke and I didn’t google it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/444 "2014-06-05T18:18:40Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > How’s that, now? A negotiation over a POW exchange is in no way a “criminal prosecution”. Hypothetical: Federal government refuses to negotiate for release of a prisoner because he’s Jewish. But will negotiate for release of Christian prisoners. Constitutional violation or not? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/445 "2014-06-05T18:23:39Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So even being “accused” of desertion (without proof!) is sufficient to change your treatment of them? If you’re acting for the federal government than you have violated of the 6th amendment. No, you haven’t. POW exchange is not a right. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/446 "2014-06-05T18:24:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, you haven’t. POW exchange is not a right. Answer my hypothetical in last post. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/447 "2014-06-05T18:24:41Z")
> [@Oliveritaly](#): > > Israeli Defense Force? You lost me there. Seriously I plead ignorance. What is that? Yes. Israeli Defense Forces. Or “Tzahal” if you prefer. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/448 "2014-06-05T18:29:07Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Hypothetical: Federal government refuses to negotiate for release of a prisoner because he’s Jewish. But will negotiate for release of Christian prisoners. Constitutional violation or not? That would be discrimination on the basis of religion, which is a nono. You can definitely discriminate based on the person’s behavior. Otherwise it would be illegal not to hire someone on the basis that he is an obnoxious asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/449 "2014-06-05T18:30:13Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Hypothetical: Federal government refuses to negotiate for release of a prisoner because he’s Jewish. But will negotiate for release of Christian prisoners. Constitutional violation or not? I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t see how that could be a 6th Amendment violation. 14th Amendment, possibly, if it was a formal policy and not a one-off case. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/450 "2014-06-05T18:36:03Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. Israeli Defense Forces. Or “Tzahal” if you prefer. Point taken then. I have nothing but respect for your nations armed forces. You folks do shit a bit differently than we do. How each nation deals with their own being taken prisoner differs. The French have a unique take on it (that’s not a joke) so does Israel and so does the US. Dude if you’re IDF what the fuck dog do you have in this fight? I understand you have an opinion but wtf? I respect you, hope to buy you a beer some day but could give zero fucks about your opinion on this matter. I mean it about the beer. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/451 "2014-06-05T18:40:06Z")
> [@Oliveritaly](#): > > Point taken then. I have nothing but respect for your nations armed forces. > > You folks do shit a bit differently than we do. Yes, Israel does ridiculous things like trading 1000 live terrorists who will go on to kill more Israelis for two soldiers’ bodies. I don’t approve of that either. > [@](#): > > How each nation deals with their own being taken prisoner differs. The French have a unique take on it (that’s not a joke) so does Israel and so does the US. > > Dude if you’re IDF what the fuck dog do you have in this fight? I understand you have an opinion but wtf? I live in the US and am a US citizen. And hell, even if I didn’t and wasn’t, that would not deter me from having an opinion or discussing it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/452 "2014-06-05T18:45:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That would be discrimination on the basis of religion, which is a nono. You can definitely discriminate based on the person’s behavior. Otherwise it would be illegal not to hire someone on the basis that he is an obnoxious asshole. So you agree that failing to negotiate for a prisoner could in some cases be a constitutional violation? As as employee of the federal government can you discriminate against someone based on his criminal background? Let’s say you can, but can you discriminate against someone based on what you think his criminal background should have been, if only that damned uncooperative jury had convicted him? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/453 "2014-06-05T18:49:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. Israeli Defense Forces. Or “Tzahal” if you prefer. In what capacity? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/454 "2014-06-05T18:52:40Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So you agree that failing to negotiate for a prisoner could in some cases be a constitutional violation? No. Discrimination based on religion would be. Not sure if it would be a Constitutional violation though. Maybe 14th. > [@](#): > > As as employee of the federal government can you discriminate against someone based on his criminal background? Let’s say you can, but can you discriminate against someone based on what you think his criminal background should have been, if only that damned uncooperative jury had convicted him? You know what, I answered your question, now you answer mine. There are two POWs. For one, a dozen of people in his unit say that he walked off the base and consider him a deserter, and there are reports from the Afghans that he went looking for the Taliban. The other fought off the enemy for hours in a remote outpost and was the sole survivor of that battle, taken prisoner. You as a federal employee can only trade one of them. Are you claiming that it would be a Constitutional violation if you traded for the second one based on his behavior and not for the first one? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/455 "2014-06-05T18:55:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > In what capacity? Hel Kesher (communications corps) in regular. Totchanim (artillery) in reserves. It was “kravi” (frontline troop) in both. Why does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/456 "2014-06-05T19:02:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No. Discrimination based on religion would be. Not sure if it would be a Constitutional violation though. Maybe 14th. > > You know what, I answered your question, now you answer mine. There are two POWs. For one, a dozen of people in his unit say that he walked off the base and consider him a deserter, and there are reports from the Afghans that he went looking for the Taliban. The other fought off the enemy for hours in a remote outpost and was the sole survivor of that battle, taken prisoner. You as a federal employee can only trade one of them. Are you claiming that it would be a Constitutional violation if you traded for the second one based on his behavior and not for the first one? I admit I haven’t slogged through this whole thread but is there some second war hero being held captive by this same group of Taliban that I am unaware of? If so I agree we should negotiate for his return as well. If not than I don’t see the point of this question. I would answer that we should negotiate for both or else for the one for which there was the greatest chance for release, or for the one that best advances our strategic interests or … ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/457 "2014-06-05T19:08:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Hel Kesher (communications corps) in regular. Totchanim (artillery) in reserves. It was “kravi” (frontline troop) in both. Why does it matter? It doesn’t. I respect the Israeli military very much. But we are not them. Bergdahl is free that’s the end game. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/458 "2014-06-05T19:10:33Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I admit I haven’t slogged through this whole thread but is there some second war hero being held captive by this same group of Taliban that I am unaware of? If so I agree we should negotiate for his return as well. If not than I don’t see the point of this question. I would answer that we should negotiate for both or else for the one for which there was the greatest chance for release, or for the one that best advances our strategic interests or … You’re evading. For the sake of argument, same chance of release. Not sure how one soldier’s release “advances our strategic interests” but again, for the sake of argument, equal. And again, for the sake of argument, you can only get one. Are you allowed, Constitutionally, to pick the second one based on his behavior? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/459 "2014-06-05T19:12:13Z")
For those upset that Congress was not properly notified (a reasonable concern), the latest is that they were not notified because the Taliban threatened to kill Bergdahl if the deal was leaked prematurely. The White House evidently felt that it wasn’t worth risking his life in order to comply with a law that they didn’t think was constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/460 "2014-06-05T19:14:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are two POWs. For one, a dozen of people in his unit say that he walked off the base and consider him a deserter, and there are reports from the Afghans that he went looking for the Taliban. The other fought off the enemy for hours in a remote outpost and was the sole survivor of that battle, taken prisoner. You as a federal employee can only trade one of them. Are you claiming that it would be a Constitutional violation if you traded for the second one based on his behavior and not for the first one? It wouldn’t be a Constitutional violation, but it would be a violation of the duty and commitment of the United States to members of its armed forces. You may not understand, but there it is. Thankfully, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff understands. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=24)