# Is Bergdahl being swiftboated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840 "2014-06-02T15:34:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/501 "2014-06-06T04:25:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Bergdahl was only gone a day or two before he was captured, and desertion normally requires one to be gone for 30 days or more. Further, even desertion only carries a maximum penalty of 5 years, so this would not be a death penalty case unless treason could be proven. I think he was only gone a few hours before he was captured. In this interview he was already in the next country within a few days: [http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/06/05/qa-how-u-s-tried-and-failed-to-find-bergdahl/](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/06/05/qa-how-u-s-tried-and-failed-to-find-bergdahl/) > [@](#): > > Immediately after his disappearance, the U.S. military mounted a large-scale search of the area in Afghanistan in an attempt to prevent his abductors from bringing him across the border into Pakistan. But that effort soon failed. > > Within the first 48 hours of the search, however, credible information began to come in that suggested Sgt. Bergdahl was already over the border in Pakistan. Still, the search continued for at least a month and then began tapering off, the former special operations forces officer said. > > “Looking back on it, if I had to bet, I’d bet he was immediately driven straight over,” the former special operations forces officer said. “We had very credible information very early on that he was gone.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/502 "2014-06-06T12:57:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Ah, so for 37 or so years US didn’t really care about him. What happened to the “we don’t leave our own behind”? What makes you think the US ever stopped wanting him back, even if they were powerless to make it happen? :dubious: After all those years, they went to some trouble to make it happen when it finally became possible. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/503 "2014-06-06T12:58:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What makes you think the US ever stopped wanting him back, even if they were powerless to make it happen? Show me any indication that the US made any effort to get him back for those 37 years. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/504 "2014-06-06T13:10:44Z")
Show me any indication that it was possible. Come on. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/505 "2014-06-06T13:49:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Show me any indication that it was possible. It’s always possible to try. Show me that there was any trying at all. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/506 "2014-06-06T13:51:59Z")
Sigh … the fact that they brought him back the moment it became possible, even after 37 years, is all the evidence that should be needed by somebody trying to evaluate the situation objectively. IOW, you’re wrong, deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/507 "2014-06-06T13:58:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Sigh … the fact that they brought him back the moment it became possible, even after 37 years, is all the evidence that should be needed by somebody trying to evaluate the situation objectively. Not at all. That was at his initiative, not US government’s. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/508 "2014-06-06T14:09:24Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > Question for the people who don’t think those five Taliban should have been traded for Bergdahl: > > AIUI, the five Taliban are set up in a nice hotel in Qatar. They are supposed to stay there for a year. What if the plan is, their phones are tapped, their rooms are bugged, CIA agents are living next door, there are five drones permanently parked in the sky above the hotel. We gather intel from them, monitor who they contact and what they say for a year, and if one of them takes off, the drone follows them to wherever they go and blows the meeting to kingdom come. > > If that’s the plan, does that change your mind? Cause I gotta think that’s the plan, or something similar. I sure as hell hope we’re not doing something as ridiculous as that. I think you’ve been watching too much _24_. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/509 "2014-06-06T14:14:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Not at all. That was at his initiative, not US government’s. And that’s what made it possible to get him. Dude. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/510 "2014-06-06T14:33:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And that’s what made it possible to get him. And still, there is no evidence whatsoever that the US government has made any effort to “bring our own back” in his and his three comrades’ case - for 37 years, until he basically got out himself and contacted US government to come back. And in case of his comrades, no evidence of any effort ever. Which kinda puts all that “we try get our own back no matter what” pathos in doubt - at least in case of “alleged” deserters. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/511 "2014-06-06T14:39:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I can pretty much guarantee that they were not. > > But I don’t even care about the US government part of it. You know all those veteran MIA/POW advocacy groups that exist. Find me one mention of them advocating for the return of Jenkins, Dresnok, Abshier, or Parrish. You know, in the “we don’t leave one of our own behind” kind of pathos. Why? Even assuming I find something one way or the other, what would the opinions of an advocacy group have to do with U.S. military policy? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/512 "2014-06-06T14:40:02Z")
You’re seeing what you \*want \*to see. The question is why. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/513 "2014-06-06T14:58:51Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Why? Even assuming I find something one way or the other, what would the opinions of an advocacy group have to do with U.S. military policy? However, just for you: [the National Alliance of Families for the Return of America’s Missing Servicement, newsletter for October 19, 2002](http://www.nationalalliance.org/bits/naf2002/021019.htm): “We have long questioned the status of Jenkins, Parrish, Abshire and Dresnok the other American “defectors.” Until each man can be questioned, on neutral ground, we must give the benefit of the doubt to the serviceman.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/514 "2014-06-06T15:02:05Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Why? Even assuming I find something one way or the other, what would the opinions of an advocacy group have to do with U.S. military policy? The policy comes out of the ethos. It seems that the ethos says “to hell with deserters”, as seems to be the case with the ones I am pointing at. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/515 "2014-06-06T15:04:06Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > However, just for you: [the National Alliance of Families for the Return of America’s Missing Servicement, newsletter for October 19, 2002](http://www.nationalalliance.org/bits/naf2002/021019.htm): “We have long questioned the status of Jenkins, Parrish, Abshire and Dresnok the other American “defectors.” Until each man can be questioned, on neutral ground, we must give the benefit of the doubt to the serviceman.” That’s “questioning of status” (what status - I don’t know). Doesn’t indicate any effort or call to “bring our own back”, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/516 "2014-06-06T15:57:03Z")
It has come to my attention that the powers that be were (more than likely) going to release these same five men next year as the war winds down. This discussion of trading these same five men has been going on for at least four years. The Taliban chose these men to be traded not President Obama … The Taliban even wanted money to be included too, but the higher ups said that the return of these five men would be worth millions of dollars for their cause. They probably would’ve been released back to Afghanistan next year anyway for there eventual fate to be decided. I yield to the wisdom of getting something for these five men … Bergdahl may very well have had mental problems before he even went to Afghanistan, but after five years of being held captive he will have even more mental problems. This whole thing smacks of closing down Guantanamo Bay, which they say now only holds eight men left over from the war in Afghanistan who will of course be released as the war winds down to other third party countries or Afghanistan. I say it’s time to say its a done deal and stop putting down the President or the decision to trade those five terrorist for Sgt Bergdahi. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/517 "2014-06-06T16:11:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s “questioning of status” (what status - I don’t know). Doesn’t indicate any effort or call to “bring our own back”, does it? Did you bother to read the article? A POW/MIA advocacy group was criticizing the fact that the government hadn’t made more extensive efforts to bring Jenkins and the others home. If that’s not a call to “bring our own back,” how would you define such a call? (The article does allude to a 1996 Pentagon report as the first time the feds were actually fairly certain Jenkins was in North Korea in the first place, as opposed to simply having deserted and made a new life for himself somewhere unknown. I’ve never seen that report; are you familiar with it?) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/518 "2014-06-06T16:18:20Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > It has come to my attention that the powers that be were (more than likely) going to release these same five men next year as the war winds down. This discussion of trading these same five men has been going on for at least four years. > > The Taliban chose these men to be traded not President Obama … The Taliban even wanted money to be included too, but the higher ups said that the return of these five men would be worth millions of dollars for their cause. > > They probably would’ve been released back to Afghanistan next year anyway for there eventual fate to be decided. > > I yield to the wisdom of getting something for these five men … Bergdahl may very well have had mental problems before he even went to Afghanistan, but after five years of being held captive he will have even more mental problems. > > This whole thing smacks of closing down Guantanamo Bay, which they say now only holds eight men left over from the war in Afghanistan who will of course be released as the war winds down to other third party countries or Afghanistan. > > I say it’s time to say its a done deal and stop putting down the President or the decision to trade those five terrorist for Sgt Bergdahi. According to wikipedia there are 46 still there. I wonder what the Afghan government will do to these 5 guys if they return. Surely they aren’t going to just grant them entry and say: Welcome back! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/519 "2014-06-06T16:32:08Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Did you bother to read the article? Yes, and it confirms that the US government was doing nothing to “bring them home” because they were deserters. Contrary to the pathos expressed on this thread. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/520 "2014-06-06T16:35:51Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > An army that says “We have no right to consider the likely cost of retrieving a captured soldier” is likely to find itself in deep trouble. It could easily lose other soldiers with this attitude. I don’t quite agree. The Army evaluates mission-risk parameters all the time. (“Where is the prisoner being held? How many guards are there? What ingress/egress routes are available? What forces are available to conduct the mission? What are the chances of getting the prisoner/hostage out alive?”) The Army or Navy has never had an “at all costs” attitude in retrieving captured personnel. Nor has the military acted as if every service member are precious little snow flakes, either. “Acceptable losses” is a cold, ugly fact of war, and they risk (and lose) lives to accomplish some goal as part of the job. But all that is sorta a red herring in my opinion, anyway. A prisoner swap is a political, not military decision, and, as such, may very well be a decision arrived at using a different set of values than those the Army will consider. A POW trade will be decided upon by the appropriate (civilian) leadership, not the Army. The President is not required to make this decision based on how the Army feels about a particular prisoner or Army battlefield traditions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=27)