# Is Bergdahl being swiftboated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840 "2014-06-02T15:34:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/681 "2014-06-10T17:30:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It certainly isn’t because of the tone of the editorial, which thoroughly excoriates McCain for flipflopping, without granting him the “modified” interpretation that friend \*\*Terr \*\*insists upon. Yes, it is “granting him” the “modified” interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/682 "2014-06-10T17:31:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > What he said, by the rules of the English language, can mean either. So the quote is: I would support ways of bringing him home, and if exchange was one of them I think that would be something I think we should seriously consider. I don’t see how you’re parsing this to mean what you think it means. Why doesn’t this sentence mean “I would support ways of bringing him home, and if exchange was one of those ways, I think that would be something I think we should seriously consider”? I just don’t see how a meaning of “I would support ways of bringing him home, and if the exchange was one of those terrorists, I think that would be something I think we should seriously consider” is grammatically correct. You’d have better luck, IMO, defending him on the basis that he said we should just THINK about it, not that it was an automatic “let’s do it.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/683 "2014-06-10T17:32:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If you think it is three months later, cite? I’ll decline your attempt at a distraction from the issue, which is that McCain never says that he supports an exchange of only one terrorist. > [@](#): > > English language understanding. No need to type out the quote since you already did. But if you insist: > > “I would support — obviously I’d have to know the details — but I would support ways of bringing him home, and if exchange was one of them, I think that would be something I think we should seriously consider.” > > “One of them” as in “one of the five terrorists”. So ‘if exchange was one of [the five terrorists]’…??? Huh? What does ‘exchange was a terrorist’ mean? Are you saying that McCain doesn’t know proper grammar, but you’re able to suss out what he meant, even though what he actually said _with proper grammar_ means something totally different? Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/684 "2014-06-10T17:33:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, it is “granting him” the “modified” interpretation. If it did, there wouldn’t be an editorial blasting him for changing his mind, would there? It’s over. You’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/685 "2014-06-10T17:34:07Z")
“I would support ways of bringing him home, and if exchange was [a terrorist]…” If exchange was a terrorist, we should absolutely go after exchange and bring exchange to justice. In fact, I declare a war on exchange! Down with exchange! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/686 "2014-06-10T17:34:45Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I just don’t see how a meaning of “I would support ways of bringing him home, and if the exchange was one of those terrorists, I think that would be something I think we should seriously consider” is grammatically correct. It’s conversational English. Sometimes people omit prepositions. McCain is not the most eloquent speaker. It still makes perfect sense. And as I pointed out before, not just to me. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/687 "2014-06-10T17:35:11Z")
[Another account](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607?page=7) of McCain’s prior albeit reluctant support of the deal, written well before it was concluded. > [@](#): > > The tensions came to a boil in January, when administration officials went to Capitol Hill to brief a handful of senators on the possibility of a prisoner exchange. The meeting, which excluded staffers, took place in a new secure conference room in the Capitol visitor center. According to sources in the briefing, the discussion sparked a sharp exchange between Senators John McCain and John Kerry, both of whom were decorated for their service in Vietnam. McCain, who endured almost six years of captivity as a prisoner of war, threw a fit at the prospect of releasing five Taliban detainees. > > “They’re the five biggest murderers in world history!” McCain fumed. > > Kerry, who supported the transfer, thought that was going a bit far. “John,” he said, “the five biggest murderers in the world?” > > McCain was furious at the rebuke. “They killed Americans!” he responded. “I suppose Senator Kerry is OK with that?” > > McCain reluctantly came around on the prisoner exchange, according to those present at the meeting, but he has continued to speak out against negotiating with the Taliban. Opposition has also come from Sen. Saxby Chambliss, a Republican from Georgia who won election with a vicious smear campaign against former Sen. Max Cleland, a decorated Vietnam veteran who lost three limbs in the war. Chambliss, according to Bowe’s father, has insisted that America shouldn’t make a prisoner trade for a “deserter.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/688 "2014-06-10T17:35:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If it did, there wouldn’t be an editorial blasting him for changing his mind, would there? It blasts him in spite of the fact that he said he’d be for it if it was only for one terrorist. Did you read the editorial? I think you didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/689 "2014-06-10T17:37:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll decline your attempt at a distraction from the issue, which is that McCain never says that he supports an exchange of only one terrorist. Yes, he does. And as I pointed out, it’s not just me who thinks that. I would suggest that the Forbes editorial writer knows English pretty well. Don’t you think so? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/690 "2014-06-10T17:38:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s conversational English. Sometimes people omit prepositions. McCain is not the most eloquent speaker. It still makes perfect sense. And as I pointed out before, not just to me. It’s not conversational english. It’s incorrect english. In conversational english, in this sentence, “one of them” refers to the “ways of bringing him home”. There’s no reading of english, even slang, colloquial, conversation, or any other, that would interpret McCain’s statement of “one of them” as anything but the “ways of bringing him home” he mentioned in the immediately preceding phrase. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/691 "2014-06-10T17:39:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, he does. And as I pointed out, it’s not just me who thinks that. No, it’s just you. It’s not at all clear that the Forbes editor agrees with you. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/692 "2014-06-10T17:39:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not conversational english. It’s incorrect english. In conversational english, in this sentence, “one of them” refers to the “ways of bringing him home”. > > There’s no reading of english, even slang, colloquial, conversation, or any other, that would interpret McCain’s statement of “one of them” as anything but the “ways of bringing him home” he mentioned in the immediately preceding phrase. As I said, you’re wrong, and the Forbes editorial writer, who, I think you would agree, is proficient in English, agrees with me. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/693 "2014-06-10T17:40:28Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It still makes perfect sense. And as I pointed out before, not just to me. I disagree, but be that as it may, I would like to humbly propose that the quote, in a vacuum, lends itself to the vast majority of readers and listeners as referring to ways of release, not numbers of terrorists, and that it would be disingenuous of McCain to argue (although he is not, as far as I know, and that seems significant) that we “should have known” what he meant based on that quote alone, despite your point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/694 "2014-06-10T17:40:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, it’s just you. It’s not at all clear that the Forbes editor agrees with you. If he doesn’t, cite the “now” McCain utterance that he was referring to. Your refusal to do so makes you wrong. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/695 "2014-06-10T17:41:39Z")
Further, it doesn’t matter what the Forbes guy thinks, because the video is there and McCain speaks clearly. He speaks with proper, grammatically correct english. And in proper, grammatically correct english, he says he supports a prisoner exchange. He mentions no number of prisoners except, earlier in the interview, the five “hard-core Taliban leaders”. So McCain speaks properly, and the meaning is clear. **Terr** (and no one else) is saying that McCain’s proper, grammatically correct english is actually _not what he meant_. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/696 "2014-06-10T17:43:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **Terr** (and no one else) is saying that McCain’s proper, grammatically correct english is actually _not what he meant_. Wrong. The Forbes editorial writer agrees with me on what McCain was saying. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/697 "2014-06-10T17:46:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Wrong. The Forbes editorial writer agrees with me on what McCain was saying. Wrong. The Forbes writer says this: “The only problem is that just three months ago, Senator McCain, appearing on CNN, _voiced his support_ for the very same deal that he now finds to be so profoundly disturbing.” The very same deal. Very same. The same deal. Voiced his support. The Forbes editor is pointing out that McCain now opposes the **very same deal** that, three months earlier, he supported. The same deal. The very same deal. McCain supported it. The Forbes writer does not agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/698 "2014-06-10T17:47:48Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It blasts him in spite of So even the \*writer \*didn’t think about what he was saying _either_, huh? But \*you \*know what he meant even if \*he \*didn’t. > [@](#): > > the fact that he said he’d be for it if it was only for one terrorist. That is not a fact. > [@](#): > > Did you read the editorial? I think you didn’t. I know what the whole thing says. You don’t. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/699 "2014-06-10T17:48:37Z")
This is so much fun. **Terr** is wrong a lot, but this is the wrongest (and most obviously, clearly, and provably wrong) I can remember him being. **Terr** , sometimes you just make me so damn happy 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/700 "2014-06-10T17:48:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Wrong. The Forbes writer says this: > > “The only problem is that just three months ago, Senator McCain, appearing on CNN, _voiced his support_ for the very same deal that he now finds to be so profoundly disturbing.” > > The very same deal. Very same. The same deal. Voiced his support. You’re conveniently ignoring “He later modifies his response to say that if the exchange were for one of these terrorists”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=36)