# Is Bergdahl being swiftboated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840 "2014-06-02T15:34:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/81 "2014-06-03T16:17:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Apparently those interviews with fellow angry soldiers were arranged by [GOP operatives](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gop-strategists-interviews-bergdahl). Count me as unsurprised. Nor am I surprised. Certainly the current administration and the Dems would like to sweep it under the carpet if the President decided to trade five known terrorists for one deserter. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/82 "2014-06-03T16:22:24Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Part of the problem here is that apparently no one (other than Obama’s people) have access to that information and analysis. Yes. Because that’s what happens when you elect a President. He, and his designees, are the ones who see sensitive information and analysis. Call it a bug or call it a feature: it’s reality either way. > [@](#): > > For purposes of this discussion, I don’t think that’s at all important, let alone more important. No, on the contrary – it’s key to the argument. The President is the only branch of government who is a single person. That design exists for a reason. We sometimes scoff at the notion that the President is “above the law.” Nixon’s comment on Frost about how “…if the President does it, it isn’t a crime…” was derided. But in many cases, it’s exactly accurate. The President gets to do things that, if done by others, would be a crime, because he’s the President and the Constitution vests him with powers that Congress cannot derogate. I am not an Obama fan. I see plenty of people piling on Obama now for conduct they would excuse if Bush had done it. And I see plenty of people defending Obama who criticized Bush for similar exercises of Presidential power – in fact, one such person is Barack Obama, who as a senator and candidate questioned Bush’s use of similar Article II justifications. But no matter who is on office, or who criticized, or who changed his mind and when, the truth of the matter is very simple, and it distills down to this: Obama has the constitutional power to do what he did, notwithstanding any act of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/83 "2014-06-03T17:13:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Nor am I surprised. Certainly the current administration and the Dems would like to sweep it under the carpet if the President decided to trade five known terrorists for one deserter. > > Regards, > Shodan If accusations against a prisoner of the enemy are enough to label them as not worthy of rescue for you, then I’m glad you were not in charge when I served. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/84 "2014-06-03T17:16:57Z")
Why - was there a government inquiry that found that you had abandoned your post? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/85 "2014-06-03T17:21:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. Because that’s what happens when you elect a President. He, and his designees, are the ones who see sensitive information and analysis. Call it a bug or call it a feature: it’s reality either way. True. But that doesn’t mean other people can’t make their own assessments. A lot will depend on their prior opinions of the president and their confidence in his judgments. But it’s not like the president settles it. The point here being that if other independent people who had seen the same evidence reached the same conclusion it would be a lot more confidence-inspiring. > [@](#): > > No, on the contrary – it’s key to the argument. The President is the only branch of government who is a single person. That design exists for a reason. We sometimes scoff at the notion that the President is “above the law.” Nixon’s comment on Frost about how “…if the President does it, it isn’t a crime…” was derided. > > But in many cases, it’s exactly accurate. The President gets to do things that, if done by others, would be a crime, because he’s the President and the Constitution vests him with powers that Congress cannot derogate. > > I am not an Obama fan. I see plenty of people piling on Obama now for conduct they would excuse if Bush had done it. And I see plenty of people defending Obama who criticized Bush for similar exercises of Presidential power – in fact, one such person is Barack Obama, who as a senator and candidate questioned Bush’s use of similar Article II justifications. > > But no matter who is on office, or who criticized, or who changed his mind and when, the truth of the matter is very simple, and it distills down to this: Obama has the constitutional power to do what he did, notwithstanding any act of Congress. Possibly I misinterpreted your earlier comment. I understood the “But …” to be mitigating the sentence which preceded it (“I don’t believe I would have made the same decision.”) but it now seems that you were referring to your prior paragraphs about whether it was technically legal. I have no opinion about the technical-legal aspects. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/86 "2014-06-03T17:24:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Why - was there a government inquiry that found that you had abandoned your post? > > Regards, > Shodan No, but if I were taken prisoner, and there were accusations of some sort against me, then I would hope the government would not take those accusations alone (which is all there is right now – accusations… there has been no trial) as reason to treat me as less valuable than any other service-person who was captured. So I’m glad Obama did not take those accusations into account for Bergdahl. That would have been a violation of his duty. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/87 "2014-06-03T17:35:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, but if I were taken prisoner, and there were accusations of some sort against me, then I would hope the government would not take those accusations alone (which is all there is right now – accusations… there has been no trial) as reason to treat me as less valuable than any other service-person who was captured. As pointed out, there is a good deal more than accusations. So your statement that this “is all there is right now” is false. > [@](#): > > So I’m glad Obama did not take those accusations into account for Bergdahl. That would have been a violation of his duty. The President has a duty to obey the law too, and he didn’t do that either. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/88 "2014-06-03T17:35:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The similarity of names is going to cause no end of amusement for us in [the latest manufactured Hillary Scandalgate](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/06/03/1304031/-Republicans-confuse-Bergdahl-with-Benghazi-and-demand-answers-from-Hillary?detail=hide), is there? > > Shall we just call it _Bergdhazi_? Yes! What we need is a special committee to investigate [all things Bergdahl](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17421602&postcount=800). Readable, unredacted documents will be provided. We’ll finally get some clarity to unanswered questions on what ol’ Barack’s ol’ White House was up to. Hopefully no one will go to jail. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/89 "2014-06-03T17:36:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As pointed out, there is a good deal more than accusations. So your statement that this “is all there is right now” is false. The inquiry is an accusation, and not even a criminal one. All it concluded was that he walked away from the base. That’s not even desertion – one must be gone for 30 days (IIRC) for desertion, and he was captured within a day or two. You’re wrong here. > [@](#): > > The President has a duty to obey the law too, and he didn’t do that either. **Bricker** disagrees with you. I’ll take his legal analysis over yours and Fox News’. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/90 "2014-06-03T17:39:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If accusations against a prisoner of the enemy are enough to label them as not worthy of rescue for you, then I’m glad you were not in charge when I served. [In Navy terms](http://www.ldnews.com/opinion/ci_25887277/bergdahls-release-leaves-questions-him-army-obama-administration), > [@](#): > > Adm. John F. Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman, argued that the American military does not leave soldiers behind. “When you’re in the Navy, and you go overboard, it doesn’t matter if you were pushed, fell or jumped,” he said. “We’re going to turn the ship around and pick you up.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/91 "2014-06-03T17:40:36Z")
[From the current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff](https://www.facebook.com/GENDempsey/posts/696415437091967): “In response to those of you interested in my personal judgments about the recovery of SGT Bowe Bergdahl, the questions about this particular soldier’s conduct are separate from our effort to recover ANY U.S. service member in enemy captivity. This was likely the last, best opportunity to free him. As for the circumstances of his capture, when he is able to provide them, we’ll learn the facts. Like any American, he is innocent until proven guilty. Our Army’s leaders will not look away from misconduct if it occurred. In the meantime, we will continue to care for him and his family. Finally, I want to thank those who for almost five years worked to find him, prepared to rescue him, and ultimately put themselves at risk to recover him.” I’m glad to be vindicated by General Dempsey. Again: “the questions about this particular soldier’s conduct are separate from our effort to recover ANY U.S. service member in enemy captivity”. So I was right, unless anyone is arguing that General Dempsey is wrong about military policy with regards to service members captured by the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/92 "2014-06-03T17:42:44Z")
And, as General Dempsey states, the Army will not ignore misconduct if it occurred. If it turns out he is guilty of a crime, then he should be punished. But that does not change in any way the calculus to try and recover him. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/93 "2014-06-03T17:47:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The inquiry is an accusation, and not even a criminal one. Actually it is an inquiry into what might be considered accusations, and, as you noticed, it concluded that the accusations were correct. > [@](#): > > You’re wrong here. No, I am quite correct, and I suspect your flurry of multi-posting is a recognition of that fact, and an attempt to bury it under an avalanche of denial. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/94 "2014-06-03T17:51:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually it is an inquiry into what might be considered accusations, and, as you noticed, it concluded that the accusations were correct. It concluded that he walked off the base. That’s not a conclusion of desertion. > [@](#): > > No, I am quite correct, and I suspect your flurry of multi-posting is a recognition of that fact, and an attempt to bury it under an avalanche of denial. No, but I expect that your insistence on hammering this inquiry is an effort to bury the Joint Chief’s statement that vindicates everything I’ve been saying about the decision to try and recover this service member in an avalanche of misdirection. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/95 "2014-06-03T18:05:29Z")
If find the quote about the sensitive items curious, but I chalk it up to sarcasm. Deserting with your weapon and NVGs is not “worse” than just plain-old desertion. It’s small potatoes compared to a soldier literally walking away from the FOB and shacking up with the Taliban, willingly or otherwise. I’m certain that the NCO in that story probably just thought he was being a dumbass and gave him a sarcastic answer. But as to the OP, I don’t think he’s being targeted unfairly. These are problems that the Army has wrestled with for years, and every Soldier I know (and I know a lot) has heard through the grapevine that Berghdal was a deserter. It is entirely expected that there would be tough questions surrounding this. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/96 "2014-06-03T18:10:41Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > No, if he had done that then the conservatives would have portrayed this person has a true hero abandoned by his commander in chief. Its all part of the way the GOP determines policy. > > 1. Wait to see what Obama does > 2. No matter what it is explain how that is the worst possible decision that could have been made. Indeed. As I said in another thread, if this had been President McCain and Pat Tillman, the GOP House would have already passed another national holiday. And Democrats would have quietly decried the abuse of power by President McCain\* and voted for the holiday anyway. \*Bricker is absolutely right about that, both sides do it and both sides hate it when it isn’t them doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/97 "2014-06-03T18:21:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It concluded that he walked off the base. That’s not a conclusion of desertion. As reported in the [NY Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/03/us/us-soldier-srgt-bowe-bergdahl-of-idaho-pow-vanished-angered-his-unit.html), he left a note behind: > [@](#): > > Pfc. Bowe Bergdahl left behind a note in his tent saying he had become disillusioned with the Army, did not support the American mission in Afghanistan and was leaving to start a new life. Sounds a lot like desertion. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/98 "2014-06-03T18:23:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And, as General Dempsey states, the Army will not ignore misconduct if it occurred. > > If it turns out he is guilty of a crime, then he should be punished. But that does not change in any way the calculus to try and recover him. If it turns out that Bergdahi is guilty he would have to be tried in a military court … The five terrorist traded for Bergdahi were they ever tried in a military tribunal? Yet everyone says that they are guilty … It could very well be that soon to be Staff Sgt Bergdahi will be held in a correctional facility waiting trial while the men that were traded live it up in luxury in town homes in Qutar, with full family visits allowed. I can’t find any reference to a trial for these five men named here: > [@](#): > > \_ Mohammad Fazl, a former Taliban chief of army staff and the deputy minister of defense. > > \_ Abdul Haq Wasiq, former Taliban deputy minister of intelligence. He was in direct contact with supreme leader Mullah Mohammed Omar during the Taliban rule, according to military documents. > > \_ Mullah Norullah Nuri , who has been described as one of the most significant former Taliban officials held at Guantanamo. He was a senior Taliban commander in Mazar-e-Sharif and previously was a Taliban governor in two provinces in northern Afghanistan. > > \_ Khairullah Khairkhwa, a former Taliban minister of the interior and military commander. According to military documents, he had direct ties to Mullah Omar and Osama bin Laden and was also a friend of Karzai. > > \_ Mohammed Nabi, former chief of security for the Taliban in Qalat, the capital of the southern province of Zabul. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/99 "2014-06-03T18:28:08Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840/100 "2014-06-03T18:28:36Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > As reported in the [NY Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/03/us/us-soldier-srgt-bowe-bergdahl-of-idaho-pow-vanished-angered-his-unit.html), he left a note behind: > > Sounds a lot like desertion. He walked off his base to start a new life… In Afghanistan. Those are not the actions of a mentally sound person, whatever his politics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bergdahl-being-swiftboated/689840.md?page=6)