# Is Bernie's failure to get young people out to vote the fault of Bernie or young people?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [March 4, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924 "2020-03-04T15:04:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/61 "2020-03-05T15:57:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> I’m probably still a bit stung because my preferred candidate didn’t do as well as I hoped (and still a bit annoyed by that poster’s extreme vitriol towards Bernie and Bernie supporters).
Understandable.
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> But I don’t like punching down, and I’m pretty sure I refrain from it. If you can find an instance in which I punched down, that’s bad on me, but I doubt you’d be able to find one.
If memory serves, you’ve taken some shots at the resident cephalopod. Though, at this point, I think any derogatory comment aimed at him is “punching down”. But I’m not going to do the work to provide specific cites. For the purposes of this thread, if you believe you haven’t, then you haven’t. Moving on.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/62 "2020-03-05T16:10:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> I didn’t decide this.
No? Why did you decide it was “punching down” to mock his excuses?
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/63 "2020-03-05T16:38:50Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> No? Why did you decide it was “punching down” to mock his excuses?
Taking the tweet at face value, as the post in question appeared to, he was mocking a young minority person who is struggling financially. IMO, a relatively comfortable older white person mocking a young, financially struggling minority is punching down. YMMV.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/64 "2020-03-05T17:33:25Z")
> [@bump](#):
>
> You guys do realize that polling places, etc… are set by the local county governments, and in the cases of Houston and Dallas, where the long lines were reported, those county governments are STRONGLY Democrat.
>
> I’m more inclined to attribute a lot of it to snafus and incompetence than somehow the local Democratic-controlled county governments intentionally sticking it to their own people, so to speak.
>
> Now had this been in one of Fort Bend or Collin counties, I could maybe have understood it, as they’re right-leaning and seem to be filled with just the sort of hostile middle class white people who might engage in these shenanigans. But Dallas or Harris counties? No way.
Cui bono?
If a community of Republican voters found that procedures made it difficult for them to vote, I’d suspect the Democrats of having arranged things. So when a community of Democratic voters found that procedures made it difficult for them to vote, I suspect the Republicans.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/65 "2020-03-05T17:52:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Taking the tweet at face value, as the post in question appeared to, he was mocking a young minority person who is struggling financially. IMO, a relatively comfortable older white person mocking a young, financially struggling minority is punching down. YMMV.
He said nothing about financial struggle. He said tight work schedule.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/66 "2020-03-05T17:54:32Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> He said nothing about financial struggle. He said tight work schedule.
Okay!
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### Author:  [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/67 "2020-03-05T18:31:55Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> But the old, uncomfortable Bernie is the one who is polling best with younger voters.
There’s a big difference between answering some questions on the phone or on an online questionnaire and leaving the house to actually do something.
I’ve posted a meme on FB so I’ve done my part. Yay me!
I’ll even like someone else’s posts later. Bonus!
People are responsible for their own action or inaction. And for the consequences thereof.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/68 "2020-03-05T18:38:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Okay!
OK it wasn’t punching down? Is this you avoiding admitting that you just assumed the latino tweeter was broke? For some reason…
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/69 "2020-03-05T18:56:53Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> this you avoiding admitting that you just assumed the latino tweeter was broke?
No, but this disagreement is so minor and pointless that it doesn’t seem worth any effort. So I will surrender and congratulate you on your rhetorical victory. Well done!
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### Author:  [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/70 "2020-03-05T19:16:22Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> More to the side of the argument that it is Bernie’s Fault more - [2018 youth turnout](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/04/behind-2018-united-states-midterm-election-turnout.html).That was the highest percent turnout of the age cohort in midterms since at least 1978. The engagement _was_ there and somehow he manage to throw a damp towel on to it.
>
> One can only hope that the relative depression of youth engagement he has caused does not spill over into the general against Trump.
He did that himself? Then he is a monster.
Thank god kids aren’t part of the country where they are stressed and hopeless like the rest of us. They are a special isolated “Bernie failure.”
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/71 "2020-03-05T20:29:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> No, but this disagreement is so minor and pointless that it doesn’t seem worth any effort. So I will surrender and congratulate you on your rhetorical victory. Well done!
Funny, your feelings about “punchng down” aren’t generally portraying it as a minor and pointless. In some of the comedian threads, it even came across as rather important to you. But I’m not a mind reader. Next Louis CK thread, I’ll try to remember that you don’t really care.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/72 "2020-03-05T20:49:04Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> Funny, your feelings about “punchng down” aren’t generally portraying it as a minor and pointless. In some of the comedian threads, it even came across as rather important to you. But I’m not a mind reader. Next Louis CK thread, I’ll try to remember that you don’t really care.
My feelings about punching down are that it’s a bad thing that shouldn’t be done (and it is important to me!) – my feelings about this particular disagreement with you is that the disagreement is boring and pointless and I don’t really care about it. The issue is important to me – arguing about it with you is not.
Hope that’s more clear!
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/73 "2020-03-05T20:59:06Z")
> [@asterion](#):
>
> Yeah, and were they being told that by the Texas Democratic Party? Even knowing that, would they be willing to risk being disciplined or fired by an employer that doesn’t care?
There’s also early voting in Texas for two weeks and includes a weekend. I went in on the first Saturday of early voting. I’m in Fort Bend County but still, early voting in Harris County was not really an issue.
Not the same as the ‘excitement’ of going on the official day, but if you can make it at all (not entirely a safe assumption in Texas) simply forgetting until the day of the election is less excusable than in the past.
> [@bump](#):
>
> I’m more inclined to attribute a lot of it to snafus and incompetence than somehow the local Democratic-controlled county governments intentionally sticking it to their own people, so to speak.
It’s a bit of all of the above.
The Democrats and Republicans couldn’t get an agreement to hold a joint primary, so voting machines had to be set to either Democrat or Republican. The same machine couldn’t be used for either. There was probably some gamesmanship going on there.
The incompetence comes in the allocation of machines. To appear to be ‘fair’, rather than base it on, you know, numbers, the Harris County commissioner agreed to allocate half the machines for the Democratic primary and half to the Republican. So half the machines sat idle while people waited for hours.
There was less of an issue in Dallas County, much of it a combination of failing machines and lack of adequate training for poll workers (and inadequate numbers of poll workers). Those got resolved fairly quickly, though.
Probably another issue is both Dallas and Houston did away with specific polling locations. People could vote anywhere within their county and not at their precinct. So, some polling centers got swamped while others were idle.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/74 "2020-03-05T21:15:57Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#):
>
> He did that himself? Then he is a monster.
>
> Thank god kids aren’t part of the country where they are stressed and hopeless like the rest of us. They are a special isolated “Bernie failure.”
You WOULD have given him credit for increased youth turnout I am guessing.
Funny that “the rest of us” many also as “stressed” if not “hopeless” came out to vote even more than usual.
It is a problem when you stage a revolution and no one shows up.
What happens when those who you inspire don’t vote and others do is that you lose. Not so complicated.
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### Author:  [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/75 "2020-03-05T21:54:32Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> Probably another issue is both Dallas and Houston did away with specific polling locations. People could vote anywhere within their county and not at their precinct. So, some polling centers got swamped while others were idle.
FWIW, Dallas county also had joint primary locations.
But I suspect that the vote-anywhere part of it was a big issue- I can’t imagine that the precinct surrounding TSU is particularly unrepresentative of any other precinct in Harris County, except that it’s probably nearly 100% Democrat, and probably has a lot of people trying to vote who work nearby, not just people who live nearby. Harris County has some 350 voting locations, and they could have gone to any of them instead of waiting hours and hours at TSU. I’d bet they could have driven to Hockley and voted there faster than waiting in line at TSU for 7 hours.
However, if you look at the maps, it does seem like the polling places are thicker where voter turnout is higher. But that’s a chicken/egg type situation, I suspect, and they’ll have to work on it for a while to figure out the best way to apportion voting machines and/or locations around the county.
At any rate, it wasn’t a Republican scheme, so much as it was just bungling and inexperience.
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### Author:  [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)
#### Post date: [March 6, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/76 "2020-03-06T00:01:58Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> You WOULD have given him credit for increased youth turnout I am guessing.
>
> Funny that “the rest of us” many also as “stressed” if not “hopeless” came out to vote even more than usual.
>
> It is a problem when you stage a revolution and no one shows up.
>
> What happens when those who you inspire don’t vote and others do is that you lose. Not so complicated.
OK, but I need to note that judging them according to the way we react to national elections is just denying they are kids. They certainly have a right to feel alienated, and they don’t have an adult perspective on anything. turmps presidency doesn’t just annuate them and make them feel like an adult.
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [March 6, 2020, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/77 "2020-03-06T07:27:33Z")
Sanders did well in Colorado; _Colorado has mail-in voting._
Is there generally a correlation between allowing mail-in, and higher turnouts of youth? (Or of some other demographics?)
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### Author:  [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)
#### Post date: [March 6, 2020, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/78 "2020-03-06T09:18:10Z")
It’s hard to say without clear data on voter suppression in the USA.
It’s a country that doesn’t allow inspectors and doesn’t comply with international standards on voting processes.
For example:
> **[California and Texas voters faced hours-long lines on Super Tuesday](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/04/california-and-texas-voters-faced-hours-long-lines-on-super-tuesday)**
>
> Several factors are to blame, including ageing equipment and insufficient resources which forced some to be turned away
> **[Harris County's cascade of election day fumbles disproportionately affected...](https://www.texastribune.org/2020/03/04/harris-countys-texas-southern-university-voting-delays-what-happened/)**
>
> The last voters at Texas Southern University, a historically black university, ultimately spent nearly an entire workday waiting in line to cast their ballots, nearly seven hours after polls closed.
These kinds of issues impact younger, poorer and marginalised voters disproportionately.
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [March 6, 2020, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/79 "2020-03-06T13:43:39Z")
I take it as a sign that Bernie cannot just count on young people to win the presidency. But like so much of what constitutes Bernie’s campaign and Bernie-ism, he and his supporters insist that Bernie is a magical candidate with magical messaging powers and magical powers of persuasion, and that he will, in the end, persuade voters to change their attitudes toward him and his policies - and I’m sorry but that is just naive bullshit thinking that I - and apparently millions of other voters of all ages and backgrounds - just do not have time for.
Here’s a hint, Bernie: try winning over some older voters, too. Try to stop sounding like a broken record and run a more flexible positions that can convince less ideological voters that you can actually **govern**.
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### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [March 6, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bernies-failure-to-get-young-people-out-to-vote-the-fault-of-bernie-or-young-people/848924/80 "2020-03-06T14:24:15Z")
> [@asahi](#):
>
> Here’s a hint, Bernie: try winning over some older voters, too. Try to stop sounding like a broken record and run a more flexible positions that can convince less ideological voters that you can actually **govern**.
He didn’t take that advice back in 2016. He isn’t going to take it now.
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