# Is bird ownership ethical? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 3, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769 "2012-05-03T16:17:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/41 "2012-05-08T06:52:31Z")
> [@maggenpye](#): > > Because they’re little budgies (parrotlets in the US) I am not a bird aficionado, but I have never heard the word parrotlet. In the US, everybody calls budgerigars “parakeets.” Wikipedia tells me that parrotlet is a fancier bird that you’re less likely to find at Petco than parakeets. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/42 "2012-05-08T07:15:54Z")
Ah well, shows how much I care. Last time I didn’t add the other name and people pretended they didn’t know what a budgie was and couldn’t google it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/43 "2012-05-08T07:37:20Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It’s not so much high maintenance as _different_. Cats and dogs are mammals like us. Birds are not mammals. They are more different, they have different needs, different body language, etc. Concur. Keeping a pet bird is interacting with an alien intelligence. They clearly think - arguably, they have an inner thought-life or monologue of some kind, but they _don’t think like us_. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/44 "2012-05-08T10:54:36Z")
> [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](#): > > I’m curious - for those with non-caged birds. Do they just poop anywhere in the house or are they trained to use one spot? We teach them that their gyms/perches/cages are Bird Territory and they spend 95% of their time there. Those spots have newspapers under them, which are cleaned up on a regular basis. This solves most of the problem. Being birds, they do have occasional accidents in other spots, but since there’s a human around supervising them when they’re out it’s spotted and cleaned up immediately. They aren’t pigeons, don’t eat garbage, and are a different species that wild birds so their poos are nearly as messy as some of the wild bird poos most of us are familiar with. I agree, it’s no more bother, and often considerably less, than cat litterboxes or what you put up with with dogs. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/45 "2012-05-08T11:01:30Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > They had removed the whole outer part of the wing, the equivalent of cutting your arm off at the elbow. As the bird never left the cage (while I was there anyway, a few days) I don’t think it wasn’t to stop it flying away; I presumed it was to stop it injuring its wings against the cage bars. Why they couldn’t put it in a decent size cage I couldn’t imagine, they lived in a large suburban house on a good-size block so there was plenty of room for an aviary in the yard. > > The man of the house was from northern Italy, whether this kind of thing is/was a common practise there I don’t know. [This is called pinioning.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinioning) Often done to permanently deflight waterfowl. In Hawaii, it is done to Macaws that are on display. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/46 "2012-05-08T11:08:52Z")
> [@CyclopticXander](#): > > Does anyone else wrestle with this question? I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/47 "2012-05-08T13:51:15Z")
Can pet birds be allowed to fly around outside once they know where home is? I’m guessing not, since nobody seems to do this, but I’m not sure why. We have chickens that free range all day, and they always go to their coop at night without any effort on our part. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/48 "2012-05-08T16:09:51Z")
Homing pigeons are routinely allowed to fly free - but then, they have a strong homing instinct, hence the name. The more common pet bird species in the parrot family don’t have such an instinct. It’s very rare that if one gets outside the house you’ll ever get it back although there are strategies to improve one’s chances of getting the pet back. I did rescue Sunny from a snowdrift a couple years back, mainly because he was at a loss for what to do in this very alien (to him) environment of winter in Indiana and simply screamed until I came and got him. It’s wonder nothing like a hawk didn’t get to him first. There are some exceptions - our lovebird Junior, hand raised from infancy by my spouse (his parents tossed him out of the nest within hours of his hatching due to his being handicapped) did get free-flight time in the backyard with my spouse. However, Junior was even more attached to Mr. Broomstick than usual for a pet bird (probably that “raised from a hatchling” thing) and unusually sensible. While he did fly around the backyard he was extremely wary and anxious about it, fleeing back to hide under Mr. Broomstick’s t-shirt at the least possible excuse. (He did catch himself some live bugs and worm, though, and nibble on the garden). I’ve occasionally encountered people with parrots of one sort or another who had them outside without restraint, but almost always those birds weren’t flying, they were willingly perched on the human and indeed _very_ reluctant to step off their human even when asked to do so. This gets back to bird psychology being very different than human psychology. I’m not sure whether this clinginess comes from the desire to stick with the flock, wishing to stick with a powerful ally as a defense against a dangerous world, some obsession with their favorite human, or something else but parrots can become VERY attached to their favorite human(s), obsessively or even destructively so. There are people who sell harnesses and leashes for birds so one can take them outside and even allow some free movement/brief flights without risk of losing them, but I’ve never tried it myself. Birds needs to become accustomed and trained to accept such a harness. There is the problem that even a very attached/leashed bird could very well be attacked while outside. We’ve had predatory birds slam into windows in our place while trying to snatch our birds sunning on the inside of said window. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/49 "2012-05-08T16:41:55Z")
> [@CyclopticXander](#): > > … they are kept more like fish, a sort of decoration. I’m not sure how I should feel about that as an animal lover. > … Therein lies the problem. When kept as just a decoration then yes, it is abusive to an animal of such intelligence. I have three birds . Each daily has playtime with me and or each other. Large spacious cages with music and lots of toys that are changed weekly. I could go on and on but yes, it does trouble me. Poor things are going out of their minds with bordom. Must feel like prison for them. And thanks for not eating them 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/50 "2012-05-08T17:03:02Z")
Thanks, Broomstick. Do most small parrot type birds like to sleep in the same spot every night? Like chickens roosting? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/51 "2012-05-08T18:41:17Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > Thanks, Broomstick. Do most small parrot type birds like to sleep in the same spot every night? Like chickens roosting? Mine does. We’ve hung a washcloth in his cage that he likes to huddle against while he sleeps. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/52 "2012-05-08T18:56:34Z")
Pretty much, yes, they have their favorite spot in the cage and tend to sleep there every night. Also, favorite nap spots around the house as well, usually in a spot where they feel protected. For most small birds in the wild “eaten alive” is an all too common cause of death. Parrots instinctively want to hide when they feel vulnerable. Quite a few of mine have preferred to crawl under/into something when they want to go to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/53 "2012-05-10T17:35:59Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > I am not a bird aficionado, but I have never heard the word parrotlet. In the US, everybody calls budgerigars “parakeets.” Wikipedia tells me that parrotlet is a fancier bird that you’re less likely to find at Petco than parakeets. Yep. Budgies are known as parakeets in the US, while parrotlets are a different bird entirely. My mom has a blue parrotlet named Paulie (from the Sopranos, even though the bird’s a girl :D). [This is a green one, with a good view of their tiny size.](http://images04.olx.com/ui/8/95/84/1280602875_107639184_1-Pictures-of--HAND-FED-BLUE-PACIFIC-PARROTLETS-1280602875.jpg) I don’t know too much about birds, though I find them fascinating. I _do_ know that parrotlets tend to be more intelligent and have bolder personalities than budgies/parakeets. One of the most common pieces of advice parrotlet owners say is that you _really_ cannot treat them as tiny birds, because they truly are big birds in little bodies. My interactions with Paulie bear this out. She is the mothafuckin’ BOSS and don’t you forget it! I’ll be like, “Paulie, I’m like 100 times your size, girl! Shouldn’t you maybe step back a bit?” and she’s all, “YOU DON’T KNOW ME! BETTER BACK OFF! IMMA KILL YOU! YOU TALKIN TO ME?” And both dogs (cocker spaniels! Bred to help _hunt waterfowl_ and love chasing squirrels and birds outside) are (were, in Zig’s case, since he was put down a year ago) scared of Paulie. She’s the boss and they’ll even slink out of a room when she’s in it. And keep in mind, \*they have never had any fight or bad encounter with her, ever. \* She’s got swagger. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Engineer\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@Engineer\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Engineer_Dude)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/54 "2012-05-10T17:41:22Z")
Brian Regan summarized it very well in one of his stand up routines: "People are unfair to their pets, like putting a pet bird in a cage, that’s pretty nice, huh? ‘Get in there, (clank) shutup. I’ll be making the decisions.’ I just wonder what the birds thinking, standing in a cage 'Hey, thank you! Hey I’ve been blessed with the gift of flight, (I) appreciate the environment. I know how to fly and I’m standing on a STICK!.." ---
**Author:** ![paulo-o-johannes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@paulo-o-johannes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulo-o-johannes)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/55 "2015-02-16T22:12:13Z")
This is not a difficult question. Just answer the next one: would you like to be in prison for the rest of your life? You get free food. You get free medical care. You get some friendship from other prisoners… And you get a whole hour a day outside your cage…! If you answer is no, then help stopping this slavery practise. A huge campaign to free the birds and to stop all birdcaging is starting up; ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/56 "2015-02-16T22:24:26Z")
> [@paulo-o-johannes](#): > > This is not a difficult question. Just answer the next one: > would you like to be in prison for the rest of your life? > > You get free food. You get free medical care. You get some friendship from other prisoners… And you get a whole hour a day outside your cage…! > > If you answer is no, then help stopping this slavery practise. > > A huge campaign to free the birds and to stop all birdcaging is starting up; I assume you don’t eat meat, or presumably you’d be happy being slaughtered for food, at least if you’re consistent you would. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/57 "2015-02-16T22:28:14Z")
> [@paulo-o-johannes](#): > > This is not a difficult question. Just answer the next one: > would you like to be in prison for the rest of your life? > > You get free food. You get free medical care. You get some friendship from other prisoners… And you get a whole hour a day outside your cage…! Actually, mine get the majority of the day outside the cage. Sometimes they even get to snooze on top of their favorite cabinet overnight. The other thing is that their cage isn’t regarded as a horrible place by them. When mine are frightened they go inside and hide in their cage because they feel safe there. And, to be consistent, you must be opposed to ALL forms of domestic animals, whether for eating for pets. How do you feel about dogs and leashes? Horses and carriage harness or saddles? Unless you oppose the keeping of all animals in captivity you’re a hypocrit. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/58 "2015-02-16T22:50:24Z")
> [@paulo-o-johannes](#): > > This is not a difficult question. Just answer the next one: > would you like to be in prison for the rest of your life? > > You get free food. You get free medical care. You get some friendship from other prisoners… And you get a whole hour a day outside your cage…! > > If you answer is no, then help stopping this slavery practise. > > A huge campaign to free the birds and to stop all birdcaging is starting up; Yeah my budgies have it really bad. It’s -12 and snowing outside, meanwhile my budgies are in a warm (25 degrees) home with humidity kept at 50% for their comfort. One is on a swing eating fresh parsley. One is rolling around in the damp punch of parsley. One is on top of one cage, dropping every single toy down to the floor so she can watch it bounce and roll away and then watch me pick them all back up. The last one is having a bath in one of the two, large bird baths. They have a full-time servant who comes to hand feed them cheerios, carrots and millet whenever they peep (which is all the freaking time). ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/59 "2015-02-16T23:49:03Z")
My parakeets spent most of their time sitting on the top of their cages. Though there was one who liked to perch on the dining room curtain rod. Or on my shoulder. I always felt guilty when one was on my shoulder while I was preparing chicken for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769/60 "2015-02-17T00:18:06Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > My parakeets spent most of their time sitting on the top of their cages. Though there was one who liked to perch on the dining room curtain rod. Or on my shoulder. > > **I always felt guilty when one was on my shoulder while I was preparing chicken for dinner.** I don’t know why, it’s not like it was one they knew. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bird-ownership-ethical/620769.md?page=4)