# Is Bohemian Grove real?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 9, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635 "2006-02-09T01:16:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/1 "2006-02-09T01:16:28Z")
I was just directed to this [wikipedia article on _Bohemian Grove_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_grove), something that seems to have every appearance of being a complete myth, but apparently has some evidence of legitimacy.
What’s the straight dope on this? And why haven’t I heard of it before?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/2 "2006-02-09T01:25:14Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#):
>
> IAnd why haven’t I heard of it before?
The first rule of Bohemian Grove is… well, you get the point. 🙂
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/3 "2006-02-09T02:07:27Z")
Shit, that place still exists? I’ve heard of it, circa… hm. 40s? Was it mentioned, if briefly, in Electric Kool Aide Acid Test or some such thing?
The name’s familiar, at least. None of the listed sources was it, either.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/4 "2006-02-09T02:18:46Z")
“Is it real ?” :dubious:
I had no idea it was even obscure; I hear it mentioned every year. Probably because I listen to San Fransisco radio, I guess.
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### Author:  [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/5 "2006-02-09T02:42:02Z")
It sounds plausible enough until you get to the list of noticable guests.
“Reportedly, notable past attendees have included former American presidents George Herbert Walker Bush, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Herbert Hoover, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and William Howard Taft, as well as Dick Cheney (current Vice-President,) Alan Greenspan (former chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank,) John Kerry (Massachusetts senator and former presidential candidate,) Arnold Schwarzenegger (actor and current governor of California,) and Bob Novak (political commentator) and Harp (A conspiracy enthusiast)”
Bohemian Grove sounds about the most homosexual piece of land on the planet if it really exists. There would be no reason for many of the people listed above to ever go there. Can you imagine if a photo ever got leaked?
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/6 "2006-02-09T02:48:11Z")
Ah…so _that’s_ what the whole “rich men’s campground” thing was based on from _Tales of the City_ or one of the sequels (can’t remember now).
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/7 "2006-02-09T02:54:02Z")
I remember a comment in one of William Poundstone’s “Big Secrets” books. After listing some of the attendees, he commented, “Conspiracy theorists think these guys are running a conspiracy to take over the world. These guys _already_ run the world.”
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### Author:  [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/8 "2006-02-09T02:57:14Z")
Based on a google search I’d guess there may really be a “Bohemian Grove” and even a club but that like the Trilateral Commision it’s been blown way out of proportion by the conspiracy goofs.
But that’s just an opinion (he said looking over his shoulder).
Fnord
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/9 "2006-02-09T03:43:13Z")
It’s an annual social event for the top elite of the uppermost uppercrust. They might or might not use the occasion to plot Evil Schemes and Consolidation/Expansion of Their Power. More likely they just use it to have fun. But it’s real enough. The doings at the Bohemian Grove are well documented/described in _Who Rules America?_ by G. William Domhoff – [http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1559349735/sr=1-1/qid=1139456344/ref=pd\_bbs\_1/103-2484577-4012628?\_encoding=UTF8](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1559349735/sr=1-1/qid=1139456344/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-2484577-4012628?%5Fencoding=UTF8), which I studied (in an earlier edition) in grad school.
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### Author:  [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/10 "2006-02-09T04:31:08Z")
It’s real. I live out here in Somona County and we get an almost yearly update on who’s visiting. As to what they’re actually _doing_, I’m not so sure. I haven’t seen Alex Jones’ [documentary on the subject](http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html), though, so I don’t know how much of an over-reaction the claims of Satanistic devilworship in ground up feces while taking over the world are…
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### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/11 "2006-02-09T08:25:26Z")
That’s the part I didn’t believe - pagan rituals and snuff films, for pete’s sake. So really it’s closer to a Masonic guys club, rather than a satanic pit of wild abandon?
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### Author:  [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/12 "2006-02-09T09:19:13Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#):
>
> That’s the part I didn’t believe - pagan rituals and snuff films, for pete’s sake. So really it’s closer to a Masonic guys club, rather than a satanic pit of wild abandon?
The Grove is no secret, just what goes on. The Spinal Tap bass player was entertainment director one year. Saw him in a documentary on it. Lots of high powered people giving talks, the Masters of the Universe (it’s Men Only) wandering around in toga’s, taking leaks against trees.
And yes, there is a Burning Owl type ritual where our overlords burn a large wickerman type owl and put a bundle representing all the cares of the world they so selflessly bear for us (The Ceremony of Care). It was secretly filmed by a wacko militia type radio jock once who claimed they were sacrificing a child to some ancient devil.
[Wacko link but real pics and footage](http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html)
[People Journalist’s experience](http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1489)
[Free Press Fact Sheet](http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/bohos/bohofact.html)
It’s not a secret but the participants don’t talk about it in detail. Just the most powerful people in the world getting together and sacrificing to a giant owl. Nothing to see here folks, move along now.
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### Author:  [@Regardie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regardie)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/13 "2006-02-09T09:24:35Z")
Who?
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/14 "2006-02-09T14:13:49Z")
> [@Regardie](#):
>
> Who?
Alex Jones
the militia wacko radio jock who “infiltrated” the Grove, that is. He’s a frequent guest on CoastToCoastAM (the old Art Bell show)- Honest Conspiracy theorists I can tolerate; I think he’s a deliberate liar tho.
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### Author:  [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/15 "2006-02-09T14:40:36Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> Alex Jones
> the militia wacko radio jock who “infiltrated” the Grove, that is. He’s a frequent guest on CoastToCoastAM (the old Art Bell show)- Honest Conspiracy theorists I can tolerate; I think he’s a deliberate liar tho.
Wacko but unless he’s the greatest actor in the world he’s not a liar. I saw the film he made in the context of a serious documentary on the Grove. The facts aren’t in dispute - just the interpretation. I doubt any sacrificing is going on but the Ceremony and the effigy burning is fact.
And does anyone seriously believe that when the world’s most powerful men gather for any occasion they are not talking to each other about serious shit like the world economy, the environment etc?
Hell, 3 academics in a Common Room can’t have a cup of tea without conspiring about something and I’d fully expect powerful people to discuss common interests and make common cause where they think they should, either for their own or what they perceive as the collective good.
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### Author:  [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/16 "2006-02-09T15:07:27Z")
Oh yeah, didn’t you know [Teddy Bears’ Picnic](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250282/) is a documentary.
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### Author:  [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/17 "2006-02-09T15:29:27Z")
> [@Homebrew](#):
>
> Oh yeah, didn’t you know [Teddy Bears’ Picnic](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250282/) is a documentary.
I was wondering what passed for ‘clever’ in your part of the world and now I know.
Bohemian Grove and the Ceremony are fact, your ‘witticism’ notwithstanding. What inferences you put on the few known facts is another matter.
[Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove#Mock_human_sacrifice_rituals)
(From the Nixon Tapes)
> [@](#):
>
> “The Bohemian Grove, that I attend from time to time — the (inaudible) and the others come there — but it is the most faggy goddamn thing that you would ever imagine. The San Francisco crowd, it’s just terrible. I can’t even shake hands with anybody from San Francisco.” -President Richard M. Nixon , Bohemian Club member starting in 1953 (Domhoff, p 15)
[Bohemian Club Organisers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Club)
And this is what [Prof Domhoff](http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/bohemian_grove.html) with access says.
> [@](#):
>
> The Bohemian Grove is a 2,700-acre virgin redwood grove in Northern California, 75 miles north of San Francisco (map), where the rich, the powerful, and their entourage visit with each other during the last two weeks of July while camping out in cabins and tents
> [@](#):
>
> However, it is not a place of power. It’s a place where the powerful relax, enjoy each other’s company, and get to know some of the artists, entertainers, and professors who are included to give the occasion a thin veneer of cultural and intellectual pretension. Despite the suspicions of many on the Right, and a few on the Left, it is not a secret meeting place to plot, plan, or discuss – everyone there is too drunk for that kind of thing anyhow.
Contest inferences all you like but to deny publically known facts with not-very-smart-aleck remarks is asinine.
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/18 "2006-02-09T15:40:49Z")
> [@tagos](#):
>
> Wacko but unless he’s the greatest actor in the world he’s not a liar. I saw the film he made in the context of a serious documentary on the Grove. The facts aren’t in dispute - just the interpretation. I doubt any sacrificing is going on but the Ceremony and the effigy burning is fact.
>
> And does anyone seriously believe that when the world’s most powerful men gather for any occasion they are not talking to each other about serious shit like the world economy, the environment etc?
>
> Hell, 3 academics in a Common Room can’t have a cup of tea without conspiring about something and I’d fully expect powerful people to discuss common interests and make common cause where they think they should, either for their own or what they perceive as the collective good.
Oh, I don’t think he lied about actual events, I think he - maybe not lies- but deliberately concocts & promotes the worst possible interpretation of those events while knowing this interpretation is probably untrue… how’s that?
Either that or he’s just a nutcase who believes his own BS.
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### Author:  [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/19 "2006-02-09T15:51:26Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> Oh, I don’t think he lied about actual events, I think he - maybe not lies- but deliberately concocts & promotes the worst possible interpretation of those events while knowing this interpretation is probably untrue… how’s that?
>
> Either that or he’s just a nutcase who believes his own BS.
I can see where you’re coming from but Occam’s Razor suggests to me that Wacko Nut-job Militia types believe whatever reinforces their world-view. No need to go on to postulate he doesn’t believe it.
The close-ups of the bundle going into the flame can certainly look like a baby without trying much. A ‘hand’ was clearly visible in the documentary I saw. As i don’t beleive satanic rites are going on I saw a branch in twigs wrapped up in the bundle.
I just think you don’t have to be David Icke to believe, say, when the heads of a few of the biggest airlines are gathered in one place with some of the world’s most powerful legislators, invited environmental scientists and major oil executives the topic of air travel contributions to climate change and what to do about it without affecting everyone’s bottom line, doesn’t come up.
They’d have to be saints not to take the chance to make common cause and you just don’t get to the top of the heap in this world by being a saint.
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### Author:  [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bohemian-grove-real/343635/20 "2006-02-09T16:00:53Z")
I too have seen the documentary and there is no that that some of the most powerful and influential people in the world attend. There is a very big stage with a Owl in the centre and the carry out some form of ceremony around it and fake a sacrifice etc.
I see it as nothing more than the same kind of BS that fraternities/mason type groups get up to but it is strange that they carry out this shit at their age and position. Maybe it’s just a good day out for the kids 😉
Anyway has been said how you interpret this is the thing as the event and place really do exist.
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