# Is Borders about to go under? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 4, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387 "2011-01-04T16:46:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/21 "2011-01-04T21:13:33Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Amazon is shit for browsing, and you can’t do it very well on a kindle or a nook either. I say, if you find a book you like while browsing at a bookstore, for god’s sake buy the book at the bookstore! It’s not a fucking library! If it is a matter of 10% discount to order from Amazon I’d be happy to pay the premium to walk out with the book today. But when it is a matter of 30% or more difference in price with no other added value (as is commonly the case with technical books and writing materials) the you bet your ass I’ll order it from Amazon, right from my phone. Why would I pay such a large premium for indifferent service? Like to browse? Go to the library. It isn’t my responsibility to support a business that can’t or won’t be competitive. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Aeris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Aeris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeris)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/22 "2011-01-04T21:26:56Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > And it’s all because some people are cheapskates. Are you kidding me?!?! I don’t make a whole lot o’ money but at Christmas I like to buy gifts for people in family, you know, kind of a strange thing I like to do. Call me crazy! I don’t have a lot of money to spend so I go online to Amazon to shop because I know that I can still afford to buy something for everyone without breaking the bank. What I don’t understand is that you seem to be angry with people because they want to save money. Maybe next year I just shouldn’t buy anyone gifts. That would be joyous! “Sorry family I didn’t get you anything for Christmas this year because I can’t afford to buy anything at Borders or Barnes and Noble and I’m just too stubborn to save money by shopping online.” I mean are you saying that you should never comparison shop? You walk into a store, you see a sofa you like for $1,500 and you just buy it instead of going somewhere else where you could have bought the SAME sofa for $800? If so I really don’t understand that logic. You are purposely spending more than you have to? That’s completely wasteful. Are you a millionaire? And it’s not like I’m not supporting my local Mom and Pop store by not buying a book from Borders or Barnes and Noble. These are huge box stores. I could understand if you were upset that people were shopping at box stores instead of supporting their local businesses. I see that argument. And it’s not like I’m not buying books because I don’t shop in the physical store. It’s not like I’m saying “no I will not buy that book, instead I will buy an IPad” or some other electronic monster thing that will devour all that was once good in this world. No. I’m still purchasing books. So…I just don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/23 "2011-01-04T21:31:30Z")
I gave my mom a $100 Borders gift certificate (tucked inside a book) for Christmas…maybe I’d better call her up and tell her to spend it quick! ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/24 "2011-01-04T21:51:20Z")
[More information](http://www.bnet.com/blog/publishing-style/how-b-n-kept-turning-pages-while-borders-hit-the-remainder-bin/1169), plus some insight into how B&N is actually not in particularly dire straits. ---
**Author:** ![SylverOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SylverOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SylverOne)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/25 "2011-01-04T21:54:24Z")
I got a giftcard from them for Christmas… Guess I should probably hurry up and order something. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/26 "2011-01-04T22:11:55Z")
> [@Aeris](#): > > I mean are you saying that you should never comparison shop? You walk into a store, you see a sofa you like for $1,500 and you just buy it instead of going somewhere else where you could have bought the SAME sofa for $800? If so I really don’t understand that logic. You are purposely spending more than you have to? That’s completely wasteful. Are you a millionaire? The difference between a bookstore book and an online book is perhaps $6.00 to $10.00. That’s not comparable to the $700 difference you’ve got in this example. No, I’m not a millionaire. In fact, I’m unemployed, but I still buy my books at the bookstore on principle. Call me stupid, call me illogical, I don’t care. The day is coming when there will be no more books printed on paper because it’s cheaper to send them electronically, and oh my god! We must save the trees! And something beautiful will be lost, but who gives a shit. It’s progress, right? Conform or get out of the fucking way! I mean, we never thought newspapers would die out, right? Only forty or so more years, and I’ll be dead, thank god. May I never live to see this. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/27 "2011-01-04T22:15:28Z")
I love, love, love book stores. I love used book stores more than the big chains. But books are one of those things that you can buy online cheaper and easier than at a store. Part of me thinks it’s a shame. Part of me loves ordering crap from my PC. It is what it is. Some things can’t compete with e-tail. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/28 "2011-01-04T22:18:50Z")
Damn! I had better spend my holiday loot. I got lots of Border’s gift cards for XMas! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/29 "2011-01-04T22:28:24Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > I went looking for _A Wizard of Earthsea_ to buy for my nephew this Christmas. Two Borders and two Barnes & Nobles – out of stock. Weeks for delivery. > > Amazon had it cheaper, free shipping, _and was in my hands two days later_. That sounds like my experience. I was looking for _Bartlett’s Familiar Quotations_ for _my_ nephew this Christmas. It wasn’t in stock at either Borders or Barnes & Noble locally (and we were prepared to pay the list price of $50 for it). So I ordered it from [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) for $31.50 on December 21, opting for the free super saver shipping, and knowing that it probably wouldn’t arrive in time for Christmas. But it arrived two days later. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/30 "2011-01-04T22:33:23Z")
Five or ten years ago, this would have made me very sad. Not anymore. Borders has systematically gotten rid of nearly everything that made me shop there. Twelve years ago, going to Borders was a night in itself. They had lots of events, usually a local band or two playing on weekends. I could go to the cafe, have a soda and a bowl of their great chili, browse books and magazines, check out some classic jazz CDS, maybe even grab some obscure movie the staff had recommended. If they didn’t have an item I wanted, they could get it. If it turned out to be a lemon (which was rare), it was easy to return. Now, the events are down to nil–if the local store has one band or author signing a month it’s a big deal. They didn’t have a charity come in to wrap Christmas presents; when I asked why, I was answered with blank looks. They don’t sell music or movies any more–with the exception of some “flavor of the month” display at the front of the store featuring something I could buy anywhere else for 75% of the price. They don’t carry the local \*Reader \*any more; one of their employees went so far as to tell me it went out of business, which was blatantly untrue. The cafe food is for the birds, and their days of serving soup are long gone. They don’t even serve soda anymore! They won’t order books to pick up and preview at the store–any special orders are done through a cut-rate version of Amazon. They use a personality test to determine new hires, effectively cutting the eccentric staff with good recommendations out of the picture. Their return policy has gone from refreshingly open to Draconian–not that I ever used it much, but it was nice when I didn’t have to provide a vial of blood to exchange a book. It’s damn sad, especially considering how much time I used to spend there. I used to be the Norm Peterson of Borders; now I only go if I have a gift card. As \*\*Gangster Octopus \*\*pointed out, Barnes is really doing very well, and it does seem that they’ve stayed much truer to their business model–and made real efforts to ramp up customer service. As it sits, though, Borders has made it very easy to frequent our local bookstores. Borders has effectively given up. Which is too bad, because I really miss it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/31 "2011-01-04T22:33:51Z")
> [@Iggins](#): > > The Borders in downtown Portland, OR is closing. Good deals to be had, but it is sad when a bookstore closes… The Borders on Michigan Avenue in Chicago is closing, but allegedly that’s because a new retailer wants the space. The Borders on State Street isn’t closing AFAIK (nor the Barnes & Noble on the south end of State). Still, North Michigan Avenue without ANY general bookstore seems wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/32 "2011-01-04T23:14:46Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Call me stupid, call me illogical, I don’t care. The day is coming when there will be no more books printed on paper because it’s cheaper to send them electronically, and oh my god! We must save the trees! And something beautiful will be lost, but who gives a shit. It’s progress, right? Conform or get out of the fucking way! > > I mean, we never thought newspapers would die out, right? > > Only forty or so more years, and I’ll be dead, thank god. May I never live to see this. You know, there are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing. > [@Iggins](#): > > The Borders in downtown Portland, OR is closing. Good deals to be had, but it is sad when a bookstore closes… Seriously? You have Powell’s City of Books, which is truly a great bookstore. Borders is half-melted vanilla ice cream in comparison. All those decrying the demise of Borders and Barnes & Noble should consider that these “big box” stores are exactly what drove many independent bookstores staffed by experienced and literate employees out of business in the 'Nineties. So the wheel turns round. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/33 "2011-01-04T23:22:57Z")
My local Borders and the B&N have gotten rid of their big comfy chairs. So, if I do go to one of them to browse and maybe read a few pages, there is no place for me to sit! 😕 A pox on both their houses! ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/34 "2011-01-04T23:25:38Z")
Borders is looking at buying Barnes & Noble to stay afloat… > **[Borders Interested in Buyout of Barnes & Noble](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704156304576003041857933776)** > > Activist hedge-fund manager William Ackman, who owns a 37% stake in Borders, said he would be prepared to finance the bookseller's purchase of larger rival Barnes & Noble. ---
**Author:** ![Iggins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Iggins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggins)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/35 "2011-01-04T23:27:47Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Seriously? You have Powell’s City of Books, which is truly a great bookstore. Borders is half-melted vanilla ice cream in comparison. > Stranger Oh, you’re absolutely correct! I was just thinking in general terms of losing a brick and mortar store, not this specific store. I can envision a time when there won’t even be a Powell’s - or any place where you can leisurely browse for hours through the stacks. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/36 "2011-01-04T23:35:27Z")
I saw this thread after I got home from work and immediately grabbed my $100 gift certificate and headed for Borders. Everything seemed normal, they were fairly busy for a Tuesday afternoon. Was a little surprised they didn’t have a wilderness first aid manual in the place. Managed to spend nearly the whole thing, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/37 "2011-01-04T23:36:56Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Borders is looking at buying Barnes & Noble to stay afloat… > [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704156304576003041857933776.html](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704156304576003041857933776.html) How would that help? The only thing I can think of is that they could eliminate one store in towns where both exist. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/38 "2011-01-04T23:42:32Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Borders is looking at buying Barnes & Noble to stay afloat… > [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704156304576003041857933776.html](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704156304576003041857933776.html) That article is from a month ago. Considering the liquidity problem they seem to be facing I very much doubt that Borders will be buying anything. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/39 "2011-01-04T23:44:01Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I doubt that Amazon will buy them, as that will almost certainly require Amazon to collect sales tax on purchases, and they’ve been avoiding doing so. (But it would be nice if Amazon did so and let us pick up orders from the stores, and return stuff to the stores.) > > I’m not sure who would buy Borders. It’s a shame as they’ll leave some big retail locations empty. To clarify a minor point, when I said “swallowed” I did not in any sense mean “purchased” because, you’re right, no one’s going to buy Border’s. I meant Amazon would swallow them by taking away their customers and market share, which they are doing for reasons already illustrated upthread. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/40 "2011-01-04T23:44:51Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Great. Another of my best pleasures dying. > > People who browse at bookstores, figure out what they want, and then leave the store to order the book on Amazon because it’s cheaper or whatever make me physically ill. > > I can understand why people do this, but honestly, you make me sick, all of you. > > When books are extinct, and the world wide net crashes for whatever reason, and civilization is thrust into a second dark age, I’ll know who to blame. > > I hope I’m dead by then. Woah, chill! I, too, love bookstores. In fact, after finding the book I wanted on Amazon, I physically went to Borders with the intent of buying it there. However, the price at Borders was _double_ what it was at Amazon. There’s no way I can spend $25 per purchase to subsidize Borders. **ETA:** Oh, I also saw this: > [@](#): > > The difference between a bookstore book and an online book is perhaps $6.00 to $10.00. That’s not comparable to the $700 difference you’ve got in this example. At least in my real-world example, I’m talking about at $25 difference. In most situations where we’re talking about a, say, less than 20% difference in price, I’d be apt to pay the ‘local’ markup and walk out with the book. Much beyond that and you’ve lost me. And, I agree completely with **Stusblues** ’ observations. The Borders here in town has the worst inventory of a large book store I’ve ever seen, but it didn’t used to be that way. A few years ago they did a re-model of the interior, and devoted massive amounts of floor space to little gifts and non-book/media related products, while shrinking a number of genres’ shelf-space. They have the smallest Sci-fi section I’ve ever seen, which is sad in a place as big as it is. Barnes and Noble is a much more satisfying store. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387.md?page=3)