# Is Borders about to go under? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 4, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387 "2011-01-04T16:46:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/161 "2011-02-16T23:29:26Z")
Looks like mine might survive. It wasn’t on the list. I usually spend my Discover reward on Border’s cards, but have been holding off. Now I might go ahead and use them. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/162 "2011-02-16T23:48:14Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > I usually spend my Discover reward on Border’s cards, but have been holding off. Now I might go ahead and use them. If you do, I would suggest using the cards as quickly as possible. I do not believe Borders will emerge from reorganization. They’ll close some stores, bumble along for six to nine months, announce that they’re closing more stores, and then give up. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/163 "2011-02-17T01:21:20Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I doubt that you’ll be able to buy anything good cheaply, since they can just pack up the new merchandise and move it to a different store, or sell it back to the distributor. I went to a CompUSA when that store was closing and they mostly had junky stuff in the store. (I get the impression that they actually bring in new crappy merchandise to a going-out-of-business sale because people think they’re going to get a bargain.) The wife of my office-neighbor works at one of the Borders closing locally. She told him they’d been informed that “people” would arrive tomorrow to set up the sell-off. These are not Borders’ people; the Borders people may or may not be asked to stay on to assist in the sell-off. And the merchandise won’t be going to one of the stores remaining open. Either way, once laid off the Borders employees may pay to continue their benefits until the end of the month, but Borders is not offering them anything. There is a hiring freeze on the other stores, too, so they can’t transfer. After some unspecified period of time, they will be allowed to apply (via normal procedures) at another store. … If any of 'em are stupid enough to do so, presumably. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/164 "2011-02-17T01:57:23Z")
I just received an e-mail from Borders assuring me that the company is still going, that the Borders Rewards program is still active, and that any KOBO e-book purchases aren’t volatile. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/165 "2011-02-17T04:43:33Z")
So, the beginning of the end, eh? Books on the Internet only for a lot of places. People becoming further locked into preexisting prejudices and preferences because of it, just like Internet political discourse – echo chambers. No random discovery, no wonder. Will my nephews never have the pleasures of bookstores like I did? And worse – some people saying “good riddance,” that all we NEED is the Internet? Gad, I’m depressed. ---
**Author:** ![Shooby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Shooby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shooby)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/166 "2011-02-17T06:28:59Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So, the beginning of the end, eh? Books on the Internet only for a lot of places. People becoming further locked into preexisting prejudices and preferences because of it, just like Internet political discourse – echo chambers. No random discovery, no wonder. Will my nephews never have the pleasures of bookstores like I did? > > And worse – some people saying “good riddance,” that all we NEED is the Internet? > > Gad, I’m depressed. Random discovery is still around, it’ll just come about in different ways. Granted, the recommendations on online bookstores based on what you’ve already read does smack of echo chambers, but once you click on one of the recommendations, you could be led on a merry chase of books that are further and further away from your original selections. The bestseller list will remain roughly the same as a source of external input (though how valuable this is is subject to debate). And finally, there are so many places where random books and other works are mentioned - forums, articles, videos, social networking sites (I’ve been asked to join dozens of fan appreciation things, for authors/artists I’ve never heard of), blogs, etc. - and it’s easier than it’s ever been to actually follow up on these mentions, due to Mr. Hyperlink. Granted, these all have the echo chamber effect to some degree, but I’ll say I’ve come across tons of books/movies/etc. through random internet channels (the Dope being one), and many have been very different from my usual tastes. Yes, we’re losing something in the death of the bookstore, but there is still discovery out there. Perhaps it won’t give you that same spark of intellectual adventure that comes in a bookstore full of new book smell, but I don’t think the ideological cloister effect will be as pronounced as you seem to think. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/167 "2011-02-17T08:02:54Z")
Doggone it, it’s happened [here](http://www.theage.com.au/business/borders-angus--robertson-go-bust-20110217-1axt9.html) in Australia and New Zealand as well! Not officially connected but for the same inherent reason - the rise of eBooks and online sales. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/168 "2011-02-17T08:14:52Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Doggone it, it’s happened [here](http://www.theage.com.au/business/borders-angus--robertson-go-bust-20110217-1axt9.html) in Australia and New Zealand as well! Not officially connected but for the same inherent reason - the rise of eBooks and online sales. Are you actually surprised? Most of my book-friends aren’t. It’s a shame, but when people like Big W and even freaking Myer sell books for 25-35% less than RRP you’ve got to wonder what Borders’ excuse was for charging “Full Price” or even above the odds, if some of what I’ve been reading online is to be believed. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/169 "2011-02-17T08:19:10Z")
No, I’m not surprised. I’ve been wanting to get the latest Terry Pratchett Tiffany Aching book but it’s retailing for $50, which is over twice as much as the first in that sub-series cost less than ten years ago. On Amazon, it’s a much more reasonable price. Borders were shooting themselves in the foot. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/170 "2011-02-17T08:20:24Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I just received an e-mail from Borders assuring me that the company is still going, that the Borders Rewards program is still active, and that any KOBO e-book purchases aren’t volatile. [Here’s a](http://ebm.e.borders.com/c/tag/hBNXHcHAQfEXsB8Y8LtC2dwgSFu/doc.html?t_params=I_BRP%3D2%26I_FROM%3D1%26I_NEW_FOOTER1%3D0%26EMAIL%3Djackdavinci%2540gmail.com&cmpid=SA_20110216)link to mine. Hope it works for y’all. There’s some weirdness that makes the text uncopiable. My website isn’t up or I’d host a copy of the image. Hopefully someone else can step in. ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/171 "2011-02-17T14:41:44Z")
Like everyone else, I’m sad to see physical bookstores close, though I haven’t shopped them as much in the last few years as I used to. But: could this trend end up helping local libraries, which themselves have been hit hard? It seems the library is about the last place to go to browse books. It would be nice if there was a silver lining here, one that increases library patronage. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/172 "2011-02-17T15:03:02Z")
> [@Raza](#): > > But: could this trend end up helping local libraries, which themselves have been hit hard? It seems the library is about the last place to go to browse books. It would be nice if there was a silver lining here, one that increases library patronage. Having more customers doesn’t help libraries. Having more funding does. It is not a given that more customers=more funding – patrons don’t pay for library services, you know. If you want to help your library, make your feelings known to your City Council, your state legislator, or whoever else holds the library purse strings in your community. BTW, Ann Arbor, home of Borders Books & Music Corporate HQ, which has THREE Borders and a HUGE Barnes & Nobles per 100,000 population, plus several viable independents and 2 used book stores going strong, has never once voted down library funding in a local election. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/173 "2011-02-17T15:22:22Z")
I’m sure their demise in Australia has nothing to do with e-books. It is all related to the grotesquely overpriced Aussie book market. I, like everyone I know (including the government department I work for) use [booko](http://booko.com.au/) to find the best source for any book we want. It is usually [The Book Depository](http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/) - free postage to your door at a fraction of the cost. Takes 4 or 5 days to arrive though. Since I discovered it my friends and I don’t buy books anywhere else. I picked up 2 from the post office today. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/174 "2011-02-17T15:26:11Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Having more customers doesn’t help libraries. Having more funding does. It is not a given that more customers=more funding – patrons don’t pay for library services, you know. Not automatically, but I imagine the past year’s statistics factor into the budget hearing. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/175 "2011-02-17T15:29:42Z")
> [@Shooby](#): > > Random discovery is still around, it’ll just come about in different ways. Granted, the recommendations on online bookstores based on what you’ve already read does smack of echo chambers, but once you click on one of the recommendations, you could be led on a merry chase of books that are further and further away from your original selections. The bestseller list will remain roughly the same as a source of external input (though how valuable this is is subject to debate). And finally, there are so many places where random books and other works are mentioned - forums, articles, videos, social networking sites (I’ve been asked to join dozens of fan appreciation things, for authors/artists I’ve never heard of), blogs, etc. - and it’s easier than it’s ever been to actually follow up on these mentions, due to Mr. Hyperlink. Granted, these all have the echo chamber effect to some degree, but I’ll say I’ve come across tons of books/movies/etc. through random internet channels (the Dope being one), and many have been very different from my usual tastes. It has been years since I’ve stumbled across a new book I wanted to read while browsing in Borders or B&N. I have, however, sought out quite a few books I’d seen recommended on the Dope or on other discussion groups I’m a member of. I’ve found it to be a better method for finding books I enjoy than by simply browsing through a store, waiting for something to catch my eye. And since those books were never in stock at Borders or B&N, I ordered from Amazon, of course. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/176 "2011-02-17T16:02:27Z")
The Borders here is closing, at the same time that the last independent bookstore downtown is clearing its inventory. Think of how awful it is to be competing for a going out of business sale. ☹ There’s still several used bookstores downtown, and two geek bookstores. The problem with the smaller indie bookstores I’ve seen is that they’re typically very limited in scope. The inventory tends to reflect the owner’s tastes in literature, as opposed of the buying public. I can understand this, with people being very passionate about what they read. If they want to sell books, though, especially in a smaller city or town, they should understand that they may have a limited customer base if they decide to go deep with the gender studies and Chomsky screeds, and skimp with the bestsellers and new releases. To be successful, their passion needs to be for the written word, period, and they need to understand that they have to carry some books with wider appeal to subsidize the space for specialized, slower-moving volumes. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/177 "2011-02-17T16:06:10Z")
> [@](#): > > It has been years since I’ve stumbled across a new book I wanted to read while browsing in Borders or B&N. I have, however, sought out quite a few books I’d seen recommended on the Dope or on other discussion groups I’m a member of. I’ve found it to be a better method for finding books I enjoy than by simply browsing through a store, waiting for something to catch my eye. > > And since those books were never in stock at Borders or B&N, I ordered from Amazon, of course. Your experience is the opposite of mine – I find most of the books I’m interested in through bookstore browsing, which leads me to find things that a directed search (or those “you might enjoy this” software the book sites use online) would never find. And, of course, since I found them there, the bookstore has them. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/178 "2011-02-17T16:14:03Z")
The Borders within walking distance of me is closing, as are most of the others in my area. The only ones staying open are one in Raleigh, and the one at the airport. A few weeks ago I almost bought a bunch of Borders gift cards with my Discover rewards. I’m glad I didn’t; I guess I’ll be buying Amazon cards instead. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/179 "2011-02-17T16:38:15Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Didn’t help Boston. This town used to be filled with bookstores. Aside from the remaining two Big Box stores, college bookstores, and a couple of amazingly resilient used book stores, there’s only Trident Bookstore/Cafe in the downtown area, with others much faryther away (Harvard books in Harvard Square, Booksmith at Coolidge Corner, and others farther out). I’d have said Boston was at least a big book town as San francisco. For now, all the Borders in the [Houston area](http://swamplot.com/houstons-borders-will-remain-open/2011-02-16/) will stay open. Not that I’m a great patron–they’re mostly out of my cruising range. Brazos Books is our main “arty” bookstore, but I find the collection rather sparse; SF’s legendary City Lights actually figures in literary history–but it’s also crammed full of books. However, I like the Brazos satellite store at the Menil Collection. Domy Books has a bunch of comics & weirdo collectibles among the books. And it sponsors “events.” As a mass transit user, I find our downtown Books A Million convenient. Good for the occasional SF PBK. Note to self: Avoid the magazine section after a downtown happy hour; it can get expensive. And I still love Half Price Books. Note to self: Visit these stores more! ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387/180 "2011-02-17T16:52:40Z")
I don’t fully understand the “too expensive” comments. Using their rewards card, I get coupons via e-mail several times per week. I never buy anything there at the cover price except magazines. Of course, that usage pattern - if used by too many people - would explain why they are going under. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-borders-about-to-go-under/566387.md?page=10)