I apologize if this been mentioned, but I have trouble reading long posts and threads. Getting old. 
Has anyone said anything about criminal charges yet? Somebody fucked up, and blatently put profit above safety to the extent that lives were lost. Secondary to that devastating damage has been done, and there appears to be even worse ahead. Somebady needs to go to jail. Oil people need to learn that the balls-out, get-it-done attitude just doesn’t cut it anymore. Things have improved, but they still killed those workers.
I’ve worked in and around the oil drilling business all my life. More than forty years. Still do, but now at a research facility.
This is a terrible situation, and no, BP hasn’t done enough. They’ve made it worse.
:mad:
Good. This one has gotten too big to sweep under the rug, and people are pissed.
Believe me, oil companies are walking on eggs. At least for now.
And rightly so.
Well. I realized that an alternative to BP bald-faced lying is that they are shockingly incompetent. So. Take your pick.
In case it turns out they are incompetent, the Army Corps of Engineers really ought to be getting ready to act.
How thick is the mud at the bottom of the Gulf?
Using my cap-pylon-pulley system, if the cap cone is especially tall, it might be possible to sink it rather far into the muck by winching on the pulleys affixed to the bottoms of the pylons. While oil spills out the open top of course. Once the top is plugged, the well pressure can be put to use dragging this cone of muck back out of the sea bottom. No internal cementing needed, it just needs to be tall and pre-sunk. No skirt, no sombrero, no top hat. Massive resistance.
A dome won’t work. You can’t have water pulled in with the oil/methane. That’s where the ice comes from. The well head has to be sealed to some extent to prevent this. The next attempt is suppose to involve a cap heated with circulated warm water.
We don’t care about extracting the oil to the surface. If ice eventually plugs up the inside of the dome, all the better. Remember, the dome is open at the top during installation to prevent icing problems at the initial stages. We don’t cap the top hole with force until the dome is sunk 30 feet into the muck.
I think what they’re trying next will be many magnitudes easier/faster. Your dome will take quite some time to construct considering the BOP is 5 stories tall.
Yes you are correct. Seeing how this is week 6 I thought I would at least mention it.
It would be nice if they had a giant dome thingy as a doomsday device but it’s like suggesting a backup rocket to the moon. You need to have it on the launching pad full of fuel ready to go if crap happens. I can think of all kinds of stuff I would do in advance of the next deep water well starting with a backup cutting ram that will cut through a drill splice and be mechanically operated.
Treating it like a nuclear power plant is the best way to move forward. Assume everybody is stupid, make it idiot proof, and inspect various stages of drilling.
Yes.
But less insulting. This never should have happened.
Anyway, my plan is better than waiting until August.
Your plan IS waiting until August. How long do you think it would take to build your dome and assemble all the necessary gear/people to make it work? That was my whole point.
Operation “Dome Thingy” takes time.
What a pleasant discussion/disagreement! And a pleasure to follow.
I congratulate you both. 
Is the methane and oil that comes up what has froze the water? The water temp at that level is not below temps to create ice naturaly. Expanding methane would do it I suppose. Giant air/water conditioner.
Are the expanding gasses what froze the other try?
AFAIK you are correct. The main problem as I see it is that BP was attempting to siphon the oil to the surface rather than simply plug the hole. As I understand it the gas got caught in the piping at the top of their dome and then filled the inside of it such that it would no longer fit.
How long? 10 days- my guess.
Point 1- Why can’t the blowout preventer be removed? It isn’t doing anyone any good, and BP is (sort of) demonstrating that the pipes can be cut. So… with the BOP removed and just 10 feet or so of pipe sticking up the problem becomes that much easier. Any reason why we can’t scrap the BOP?
Point 2- The plan isn’t very complicated. It needs some barges, a lot of cables, strong winches, massive pylons. It might be possible to do the winching down below depending on what kind of equipment is available. The containment dome is the only thing that needs to be built from scratch, and who knows, maybe something can be re-purposed. How about one of those 50’ propane tanks you see here and there, coated with cement? Or some train equipment? Think of something.
Point 3- The pylons aren’t mission critical. If someone is building a bridge somewhere, let’s just politely inform them that the nation has need of their pylons. If 1000-ton pylons are just a mad fantasy of mine, no problem. Load up a pair of barges with gravel or cement or whatever and sink them to either side of the leak. Those would weigh wayyy more than 1000 tons apiece, and as a result would reduce the needed collection of cables and pulleys &etc to 2.
All that is left is to make sure the dome can withstand the forces it will be subjected to. The first dome was constructed in about a week. This second one- built by Real Americans ;)- shouldn’t take much longer.
I don’t think the top hat, even if successful, will be good enough. It sounds as if ~half of the oil will still be leaking, which could be 32,500-60,000 bbl/day. Unacceptable!
Inside the BOP is a ram which closed perfectly, except for a hole about 0.6" in diameter.
With a pressure drop of ~8,000 psi across it, all the oil and gas that’s been released so far has come through that tiny hole.
If you cut off the BOP, you get rid of that small diameter hole, and instead have to deal with a 21" diameter hole with gas and oil coming out under ~8000 psi. That would be very bad.
First of all, your dome has to be 7 stories tall to cover the BOP because it isn’t going anywhere. It’s a huge piece of equipment.
Second, I’ve never heard of a 1000 ton pylon. Pylons are usually steel or wood beams driven down in groups to stabilize a foundation.
Third, pylons have to be driven into the ground so I don’t know how you’re going to do that at a depth of 5000 feet.
Fourth, I don’t see how a base of sea muck is going to stop 15,000 psi of pressure. Caissons sunk into river beds only had to contend with a very small amount of pressure.
Thanks, I was not aware of those facts!
For one thing, yes, scrapping the BOP therefore is a no-go.
But this is good news too. My rough over-estimate of the pressure from the pipe was based on 14,000 psi over the the full area of the pipe. The hole you describe is orders of magnitude smaller. So! Instead of this leak launching the containment dome off the sea-floor like a rocket, we’ve got a little over 1 square inch to contend with. Fair to say the pressure from the pipe is ~9000 lbs?
My solution is (was) designed to contain the leak as if it were the full diameter (which I thought was 22") at 14,000 psi. Obviously overkill. I did describe it as Stalinesque :rolleyes: