El_Kabong, your knowledge base in these matters is appreciated.
To my knowledge, this is a tragedy with conditions not before encountered with subsea technology at this depth. As much as we would all like to see an instant solution, this may not be possible. I’m confident that every subsea engineering resource is being utilized to formulate a solution.
Only other thing that can be done at this point is to try to control the spill as much as possible. Hopefully, this disaster will be used a learning event for technology improvement.
For those that have an interest, I’m not certain which vendor produced the BOP unit for this operation, but here’s a link to a pic of a typical subsea BOP unit produced by Cameron.
Subsea BOP Unit The size of the crane operator’s cab in the background will give you an idea of the scale.
Technology accommodates big. The fact that oil rigs are big is not the problem. It is a constant battle between government regulators and industry. A letter has surfaced in which the BP exec wrote about over regulation of safety. Of course BP had lots of fines for skimping on safety. If they got their way there would be less regulation. and less safety . Like the banks, we could trust them to do the right thing. How did that work out?
I see what you are saying, but ‘best practice’ doesn’t necessarily include acoustically-operated failsafes if they were considered something that almost never would be likely to be used successfully. It certainly wouldn’t have hurt to have such a device in place (other than adding maybe 1% to the drilling budget for this project), but as we’ve discussed there is not yet evidence that the presence of this device would have positively prevented the spill. I really think any case for negligence is going end up to focussing more on the specific operations being carried out at the time of the blowout than whether this one extra safety device was present or not. Just my HO.
BTW, since deepwater drilling is so ridiculously expensive anyway, forgoing the cost of such a device probably didn’t have all that much to do with pure economics; it’s likely that some internal engineering analysis was done for projects of this nature and the projection was that its likelihood of use was deemed too small to be worth putting it in the specification. Again, just my HO; I’m not privy to any specific business decisions by BP.
Although I have to disagree with some of the editorializing here, the basic point is a good one. There’s no question in my mind that there must be a regulatory framework in place, with enforcement power, and through the Minerals Management Service, there in fact is. As we are dealing with rather complex engineering decisions, however, the enforcement body either must have the internal expertise to be able to determine which of these decisions are appropriate, or must to some extent rely on the industry it is regulating to help determine what is relevant and what is not. MMS, for whatever reason, apparently has seen fit not to include the safety valves in question as a regulatory requirement. I strongly suspect this policy may be changed in the near future.
I’d bet that if every speed limit in the nation over 5 mph was decreased by 5 mph, the number of automotive deaths through the nation would decrease by 5-15%. At the same time, half the nation would go insane writing letters that this was uncalled for and unnecessary.
What is the most upsetting to me is there seems to be no adequate contingency plan for a deep-sea blowout.
I’m following the discussion of the more learned posters, and if the spill was caused by negligence ISTM not to be written right on the face of it.
However, this is a multi-billion dollar company taking multi-multi- billion dollar risks with other people’s lives and property, not to mention the unique natural environment. There seems little hesitation to poke these holes in the sea floor, but when one of the projects goes tits up as we’ve seen, the world is helpless to take any effective action. Tragic devastation is the inevitable result.
Such a profitable company, taking such big risks, doesn’t have even a single well-cap lying around to deal with a blowout? Not anywhere? Neither does the Coast Guard (though I’m still looking at BP)? Or… anybody? I’m told there are over 2200 rigs drilling in the Gulf. Billions and billions of profits, yet the plan to deal with the catastrophic risks is 1) cross your fingers it doesn’t happen and 2) suck it if it does. Really!? I can’t believe it :mad:
Even if the blowout is pure accident, there seems to be major irresponsibility in play for the larger disaster.
Every problem? Where does that come from? This is oil pouring into the Gulf and polluting the shores and killing wild life and the fishing industry. This demands immediate fixing. It is not like "every "problem.
Workers died trying to stop Chernobyl. They knew it was not just another problem.
I understand your viewpoint and do not dispute it, but I feel should clarify a few points.
Blowouts are extremely difficult events to deal with, whether on land or offshore. The best tactic is to not have the blowout to begin with. Once a blowout occurs, all bets are off. This is precisely why there are elaborate systems, such as blowout preventers, various bits of surface equipment, and personnel whose primary job is to monitor the well for signs of a kick (the company I work for supplies such personnel on contract), on essentially all deepwater jobs. Once a blowout occurs capping it is not as simple as sticking a plug into the hole (try to put your thumb over a firehose stream, for example) and capping is only a temporary measure anyway. The well is flowing at a high rate because of the pressure differential between seabed (about 2200 PSI, give or take) and the producing zone downhole (probably around 12-14,000 psi). To control this permanently, the well must be killed: a relatively dense fluid must be injected into the wellbore to restore the pressure balance and thereby stop flow from the producing zone. This requires a considerable amount of time, in all such cases.
Also, I know everyone is focussing on BP and Halliburton (as cementing contractor), but if one is going to fairly assign blame, you’ll probably want to save a bit of hate for the Minerals Management Service. I’ll say again that BP’s project on MC 252 was surely carried out with full regulatory approval by MMS, and a fair number of those regulations deal directly with well control issues.
Nitpick: that’s more like the total, land and offshore, in the continental US. Current tally in the Gulf of Mexico, according to Rigzone.com, is 107 mobile rigs working out of 249 available, with probably another 30-50 rigs operating on fixed plaftforms.
Well, I’d disagree with 1); as (I hope I) demonstrated above, the plan to deal with the catastrophe is to take as many steps as technology and economics allow to prevent it happening in the first place. 2) is kinda correct though. Sorry.
It isn’t exactly unpredictable either. Or even unprecedented. The same thing happened 30 years ago to the (aptly named) Ixtoc I.
30 years have passed to consider how to be prepared for blowouts. Of course I think there are some more advanced anti-spill methods being used this time. It doesn’t seem good enough IMHO, considering the results.
So if we beat 9 months, we have improved?
The worst case scenario (todays anyway) is 30 to 90 days .
I don’t know why they can not drop a huge brick on it.
The depth from the top of the sea to the bottom of the sea is known as the sea depth. The sea depth of Ixtoc 1 was 48m. The number you are incorrectly using is from the drill floor to bottom of the well.
I can answer my own question… looks like the deepest wells are or will be at about 10,000 feet, fromhere. Are the companies operating these things prepared to contain a blowout at that depth?
Kinda off-topic, but curious about this…saw a show a few years back about ‘divers’ who stayed long-term in pressurized living areas that were kept at ~same pressures they worked in (deep water, per se). I cannot recall the depth/pressure these divers remained at (??). They stayed ‘at depth’ for a month or two before being depressurized over a lengthy period. And their voices were barely understandable through the intercoms from the different mix of ‘atmosphere’ they had to have at those pressures (think of a kid with helium-balloon breath, I guess).
Basically, the divers were able to (more or less) just get their gear on and step out of the pressure vessel (BIG scuba-tank looking ‘vats’ with minimal furnishings) and begin walking around on Gulf floor and do their business. I believe that these divers played a big role in evaluating rigs and/or pipeworks on bottom after Hurricane Katrina, but may be mistaken on that detail. The video of one diver (guy named Brian?) basically just stepping out and down a smallish ladder to go walking around on Gulf floor was pretty handy in application.
I am wondering if divers, utilized in ways as such, are possible at depths of 5k feet+ or so. Or is what I am referring to more of a shallower-water thing? Is there a practical limit to what a human can withstand with (almost) unlimited time available at depth/pressure? IIRC, the time and effort saved from having to decomp the diver was a major advantage to having such a system in the first place as well as being available right then and there.
Because the people of the world including I would guess pretty much everyone reading this thread:
1/ really really loves using oil
2/ will not pay any more than the cheapest offered price available
Of course, when something goes wrong it’s not “us” its “them”. For as long as we use oil it will be drilled for, it will be conveyed in ships, and it will be spilled every now and again, because accidents happen. BP no doubt had a role in this spill, but if you want to blame someone, stand in front of a mirror and point.
Ah, but I am not a billion dollar corporation operating such risky projects! And I have ranted against oil/pro green for years even though I am in no position to have much effect.
As I understand it, they are going to attempt to attach a kind of giant bell-jar over the leak and pump the oil up into ships until they can cap the blowout. If that is what it takes to handle a deep-water blowout, why not have some of these bell-jar thingys already built in advance? Then your multi-billion dollar company can say it is prepared for the worst case scenario.
It isn’t as if they have to worry about ray-guns and killer unicorns too.
