# Is bringing characters back from the dead generally a cheat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124 "2009-05-02T22:24:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/21 "2009-05-03T00:11:03Z")
It is a cheat, but it’s a kind of cheat that certain characters get as premise. I’d say the Wonder Woman franchise is allowed to let death be a revolving door for the Amazons. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/22 "2009-05-03T00:17:22Z")
> [@Anduinel](#): > > Generally, yes, but when you’re dealing with something like company owned comic books, it all depends on how a character died. If someone was bumped off in a single panel because some dork writer wanted to prove how badass and extreme his new pet villain is, I don’t mind the death being undone or ignored because you can’t take meaning away from something that was pointless to begin with. This. I’m not sure what Mr Bones’s status at DC is now; I believe Windfall is currently “dead,” as is Marvel’s Mesmero. But they died in passing in other people’s stories, so I really have no qualms about [del]resurrecting[/del] retconning them back to life if I ever write for those companies (as profoundly unlikely as that is). OTOTH, I really didn’t feel Wonder Woman’s mom needed to come back, as she had an actual death scene that was about her. However, there’s a huge difference between, “didn’t really die, the previous writer was mistaken,” &, “came back from the dead by supernatural means.” In some cases, the former is inappropriate; in a great number of cases, the former is far preferable to the latter. And then there are my feelings on Gwen Stacy… ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/23 "2009-05-03T00:27:21Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > 1. **Aslan**. He’s Jesus, after all. (Though,given the fact that he died and resurrected in both Palestine and Narnia, I wonder how many other worlds he’s gone through this cycle and exactly how he pissed off the Emperor over the Sea to be fated to go through that.) Totally hijacking this into a GD thought experiment- the nature of time-space interdimensional relations may be such that The Divine Son incarnated, died & rose simultaneously in all dimensions that needed redemption. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/24 "2009-05-03T00:41:59Z")
Yes, it’s almost always a big cheat. I feel much the same whether the character is actually dead or just believed to be dead. There’s sometimes, very rarely, good reason for it within the story, but most of the time it’s a rather obvious way for the writers to have their cake and eat it too. They get the emotional punch of a death without any consequences. The longer they draw it out the worse it is. In TV terms, I’d say that “killing” a character and bringing them back within the same episode is not as bad as bringing them back in a different episode or a later season. One example of a work where I think the bringing-back-from-death is permissible is The Who’s _Tommy_ (in any of its incarnations). Captain Walker goes missing during the war and is presumed dead. He reappears only to find that his wife has taken up with another man, and either kills (album, play) or is killed by (movie) this other man. Young Tommy witnesses this murder, which sets off the whole rest of the story. Since the supposed death and then reappearance of Captain Walker is fairly plausible in context, happens at the beginning and is dealt with pretty quickly, and is necessary to the plot, I’m not bothered by it. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Obviously I was talking about science fiction & fantasy. Comic books are obviously the worst-offending genre, though probably the single most-offending character is Xena, whose series finale went to enormous lengths to say “Okay, she’s really dead now–and this time we mean it!” And even then they’d already established that she’d be reincarnated to canoodle with Gabrielle in time. The repeated bringing of characters back from the dead is what really started to turn me off _Xena: Warrior Princess_. I had been a big fan of the show, but it really ticked me off when they killed both Xena and Gabrielle at the end of the fourth season. It was made very clear that they were really dead, their spirits were shown leaving their bodies. That would have been a pretty depressing series finale (although no worse than how they actually ended the show), but I knew it was going to return in the fall and that therefore they’d surely be brought back to life. It just felt really cheap and emotionally manipulative, especially since the previous season had ended with Gabrielle’s apparent death. I don’t even know how many times they killed the villainous Callisto and brought her back. She even wound up being reincarnated as Xena’s baby for no good reason. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/25 "2009-05-03T00:49:17Z")
This may not be exactly what the OP had in mind, but I quit reading Patricia Cornwell’s _Kay Scarpetta_ series when she brought Tyler Galt back to life. It was as if she couldn’t be bothered to come up with a different villian. Of course, by that time, a lot of the characters and subplots were becoming a little farfetched as well. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/26 "2009-05-03T01:13:52Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Actually it called Kendra, whose death at Drusilla’s hands called Faith. :smack: I _knew_ that! ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/27 "2009-05-03T01:17:01Z")
I don’t generally mind, but that’s because I enjoy speculative fiction about life, death, ghosts, and whatnot. If you don’t like resurructed characters, do yourself a favor and do not read the _Malazan Book of the [del]Risen[/del] Fallen_. Your head may explode. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/28 "2009-05-03T01:20:11Z")
I have to disagree about Gandalf, for several reasons: 1. He didn’t die. As a Maia, he is immortal; the most that can happen to one of these is that they are unbodied. Whether this involves dwelling in the halls of Mandos or returning to Iluvatar, I don’t know off the top of my head 2. He wasn’t finished. He was returned to Arda to complete the work that had been set before him, perhaps by the Valar, perhaps by Iluvatar; either way it was necessary because… 3. He was already “dead.” His long years of wandering, spent mostly in the company of Men, tinkering with destiny and fighting battles that weren’t his to fight, had left him weary in spirit and greatly lessened in power, encumbered like a ship encrusted with barnacles. During his time away, he “remembered much that I had forgotten, and forgotten much that I thought I knew” (quoted from memory). He couldn’t have fulfilled his task without that re-creation – by Valinorean standards, he was a zombie. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/29 "2009-05-03T01:26:47Z")
I think Aslan’s resurrection was nonsense. I’ve always thought so, ever since I first read the story. What kind of sacrifice is it when you know you’ll be resurrected? None at all, that’s what. And if that means I think Jesus’s story is nonsense too, then so be it. Because it is. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e36b37/32.png) [@Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_A_Tame_Lion)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/30 "2009-05-03T01:47:29Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > The repeated bringing of characters back from the dead is what really started to turn me off _Xena: Warrior Princess_. I had been a big fan of the show, but it really ticked me off when they killed both Xena and Gabrielle at the end of the fourth season. It was made very clear that they were really dead, their spirits were shown leaving their bodies. That would have been a pretty depressing series finale (although no worse than how they actually ended the show), but I knew it was going to return in the fall and that therefore they’d surely be brought back to life. It just felt really cheap and emotionally manipulative, especially since the previous season had ended with Gabrielle’s apparent death. > > I don’t even know how many times they killed the villainous Callisto and brought her back. She even wound up being reincarnated as Xena’s baby for no good reason. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Obviously I was talking about science fiction & fantasy. Comic books are obviously the worst-offending genre, though probably the single most-offending character is Xena, whose series finale went to enormous lengths to say “Okay, she’s really dead now–and this time we mean it!” And even then they’d already established that she’d be reincarnated to canoodle with Gabrielle in time. > > (That’s assuming they were lovers, of course. I’m actually in the minority that says that their love was generally a celestial rather than sublunary one.) When you raise someone from the dead once, it’s meaningful. When you do it over and over again, it’s a parlor trick. In one episode one of the _Xena_ characters even says that very thing; Ares, if I remember correctly (and talk about irony there!). I suppose that makes it worse: they knew they were offenders, yet kept doing it anyway. No wonder the series finale blew ass. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/31 "2009-05-03T01:50:07Z")
Neo is well and truly killed near the end of the Matrix, only to be brought back by Trinity’s love (and being The One). I’m not sure how I feel about it, but works in the context of the story. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/32 "2009-05-03T03:16:09Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > What, no mention of the _Riverworld_ series yet? > > Actually, I don’t know if they ever “solved” the mysteries – the series was so bad by the 3rd book (or was it the 4th) I stopped reading them. Riverworld worked nicely in the first book, but by the 4th, Farmer had taken it as far as it could and the book was terrible. Plus he stated in the introduction that everything would be fixed, so it was hard to get upset when people were killed (supposedly without reviving) in that. The book was one reason I vowed to never bring back a dead character in any of my stories (not counting ghost stories, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/33 "2009-05-03T03:34:20Z")
I was just in the current _Supernatural_ thread, so in keeping with that, bringing people back from the dead is one of the main threads of the show, so I _hope_ it doesn’t cheapen the story - it IS the story. Pretty much everyone in the Winchester family has sold their soul to a demon bring back a loved one at this point. (And the one member of the family who hasn’t sold his soul to resurrect a relative once tried it, but the demons weren’t interested.) It has NOT gone very well, though, so it’s not like there aren’t any repercussions. Their family is beyond screwed up, and there is massive guilt about surviving only because one’s relative sold their soul. (Well, it’s _Supernatural_. Of course there’s guilt. Goes without saying. Everyone in this show needs massive amounts of therapy.) ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/34 "2009-05-03T04:12:36Z")
Absolutely. I’m still annoyed that JKR “killed” Harry Potter and then resurrected him. The scene where he’s going to the forest, expecting to die was very powerful for me the first time I read it. But now the scene has no emotion for me whatsoever because I know that it’s all a cheat. In contrast, George RR Martin’s Song of Ice and Fire is a difficult re-read for me because he kills off his protagonists for good. The real problem with bringing characters back from the dead is that death loses meaning for the reader. Damn near every important character has died in Steven Erikson’s Malazan series, and all but one has ended up returning in one way or another. In book 5, a character dies a poignant death, but Erikson totally destroys the emotion by bringing him back in book 7. So a couple chapters later when another character is killed senselessly, my only reaction was “meh, he’ll be back”. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/35 "2009-05-03T04:15:14Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I was just in the current _Supernatural_ thread, so in keeping with that, bringing people back from the dead is one of the main threads of the show, so I _hope_ it doesn’t cheapen the story - it IS the story. Pretty much everyone in the Winchester family has sold their soul to a demon bring back a loved one at this point. (And the one member of the family who hasn’t sold his soul to resurrect a relative once tried it, but the demons weren’t interested.) It has NOT gone very well, though, so it’s not like there aren’t any repercussions. Their family is beyond screwed up, and there is massive guilt about surviving only because one’s relative sold their soul. (Well, it’s _Supernatural_. Of course there’s guilt. Goes without saying. Everyone in this show needs massive amounts of therapy.) I’d be ok with a story like this, I think. So long as there are real consequences to the characters I think that you can bend this rule. The problem I have is that in most stories, the author just hits the reset button and everybody’s happy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/36 "2009-05-03T04:29:48Z")
My rule of thumb is that if the author meant for the character to stay dead at the time of the death, then the charatcer should stay dead. No post-death changes of heart because of second thought regrets or fan protests or unexpected sequel needs. So I’ll accept that the “deaths” of Gandalf, Buffy, Jesus, Kenny, Dracula, and Roy Greenhilt (assuming he will in fact be resurrected) were never intended to be permanent. Comic book characters are a special category. They treat death so casually that you never take it serious. So, as punishment, I’m hereby revoking all their resurrection privileges - even in cases like Superman and Captain America where nobody believed the deaths were real in the first place and their returns were already plotted out before their deaths occurred. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/37 "2009-05-03T04:46:41Z")
I’m surprised we’ve gotten through 37 posts without mention of X-Men’s stepchild: Heroes. The show which has had the same main character “die” at the end of every season only to be revived. The biggest cheat though was bringing Noah back. His death had been predicted for the whole season, and was an extremely dramatic moment when he finally died…only to be brought back at the end of the episode. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/38 "2009-05-03T05:43:09Z")
What, no mention yet of _Jurassic Park_ and sequels? The rumors of Dr. Malcolm’s death were greatly exaggerated. So too, apparently, were the rumors of his burial on the island, the rumors of him not being on the only helicopter off the island, and the rumors of his grave being carpet-bombed. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/39 "2009-05-03T06:22:07Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My rule of thumb is that if the author meant for the character to stay dead at the time of the death, then the charatcer should stay dead. No post-death changes of heart because of second thought regrets or fan protests or unexpected sequel needs. I would modify that with a note that a writer using someone else’s character doesn’t necessarily have the right to dictate when that character dies. ---
**Author:** ![wunderkammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ed8c4c/32.png) [@wunderkammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wunderkammer)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/40 "2009-05-03T06:51:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What, no mention yet of _Jurassic Park_ and sequels? The rumors of Dr. Malcolm’s death were greatly exaggerated. So too, apparently, were the rumors of his burial on the island, the rumors of him not being on the only helicopter off the island, and the rumors of his grave being carpet-bombed. Crichton was in a pretty awkward position with the _Lost World_ novel. I almost suspect that he was really writing a sequel to the movie (where all of the stars survived). It must have been a weird balance of resurrecting and not resurrecting people. Yes, he kept Hammond dead, movie nonwithstanding, but that’s the sneaky part. A.) By leaving him dead, it looks like “I’m sticking to my own story, see, and I actually _meant_ to bring back Malcolm.” But, B.) Book Hammond was kind of an asshole. Leaving him dead is pretty much the same as the passive Retired Hammond you get in the movie, with a lot less contradiction. C.) Resurrecting someone who was nibbled to death by tiny dinosaurs is a lot harder to do than reversing a Dramatic Coma. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124.md?page=3)