# Is bringing characters back from the dead generally a cheat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124 "2009-05-02T22:24:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/61 "2009-05-04T21:38:43Z")
**well he’s back** said: > [@](#): > > re Magnum P.I. (more than you wanted to know) > from Wiki - “At the end of the seventh season, Magnum was killed off, and this was intended to be the end of the series. However, there was outcry from fans, and an eighth, final season was produced, to bring Magnum ‘back to life’, and to round the series off.” Thanks. I must have blocked that from memory, because now it seems familiar, and I’m pretty sure that’s when I quit watching the show. I know I didn’t watch the last season, except the finale. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/62 "2009-05-04T22:15:08Z")
It only enrages me when they just have the character die for dramatic puroses, then have him appear alive later to score a cheap point. Example off the top of my head: **The Last Starfighter** : Centauri gets shot and has a dramatic death scene where he says goodbye and gives Alex the motivation to go on. After Alex wins the battle, Centauri shows up at the very end. Alex says “I thought you were dead!” and he says something like “Die, and miss all this? Ha Ha Ha - no, I was simply in a dormant state while my body repaired itself!” ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/63 "2009-05-04T22:50:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > As a side note, one of my all-time most-hated episodes of _Star Trek: TNG_ involves Worf dying and coming back to life, but not for that per se, but al the preachy hypocritical crap about medical ethics. Thank goddness Klingons evolved with a second spinal column. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/64 "2009-05-05T00:22:39Z")
I don’t think killing Captain Jack Harness of Doctor Who/Torchwood is a cheat. It can happen (or at least be implied to happen) several times an episode. And Kenny. Killing Kenny is requisite of most South Park episodes, and he’s back for each new one. That’s simply the way the world works. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/65 "2009-05-05T07:24:29Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > I’ve always said that the Winchesters need to hire a full time grief councilor who just follows them around and helps them prepare for the other’s eventual death. > > … > Dean: [lip quivers] “Saaaaam!” [Takes off at a run] “To the crossroads!” > > Jerry: [facepalm] > > Sam: [licks blood] Dude, this totally cracked me up. The last line made me say “ewww!” aloud, though. And then I laughed some more because it’s true. I suspect that the Winchesters have worn out their welcome with the Crossroads Demons, though. They should just do a better job of not getting killed quite so much. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/66 "2009-05-05T14:48:28Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Dude, this totally cracked me up. The last line made me say “ewww!” aloud, though. And then I laughed some more because it’s true. > > I suspect that the Winchesters have worn out their welcome with the Crossroads Demons, though. They should just do a better job of not getting killed quite so much. They could consider a career change. Maybe they could go into antique appraisal? Though I wouldn’t call it a cheat because the writers dealt with the emotional fallout, I can’t help but loathe Buffy’s second reserection. It didn’t feel like something the characters would do, it brought Buffy and Spike closer together, it made Buffy’s death less tragic, and it opened the door for two of the worst seasons in TV history. Buffy should have stayed dead. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/67 "2009-05-05T14:55:40Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > They could consider a career change. Maybe they could go into antique appraisal? > > Though I wouldn’t call it a cheat because the writers dealt with the emotional fallout, I can’t help but loathe Buffy’s second reserection. **It didn’t feel like something the characters would do** , it brought Buffy and Spike closer together, it made Buffy’s death less tragic, and it opened the door for two of the worst seasons in TV history. Buffy should have stayed dead. I can’t agree with the section I bolded–at leat not entirely. I think all the characters were, ah, in character: Giles grieving but accepting; Willow grieving, arrogant, and treacly; Xander going with the flow. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/68 "2009-05-05T18:42:16Z")
This reminds me of the line from\*\* Soapdish \*\*when Whoopi Goldberg’s character is asked to write in a character who was killed off 20 years earlier: > [@](#): > > **Rose Schwartz** : The guy was killed in an auto accident! I looked it up! He was driving in the Yukon, in a pink convertible, to visit his brother who’s an ex-con named Frances, when a tractor trailer comes along and decapitates him. You know what that mean, it means he doesn’t have a head. How am I suppose to write for a guy who doesn’t have a head? He’s got no lips, no vocal cords. What do you want me to do? ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/69 "2009-05-05T19:30:11Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I can’t agree with the section I bolded–at leat not entirely. I think all the characters were, ah, in character: Giles grieving but accepting; Willow grieving, arrogant, and treacly; Xander going with the flow. I agree with you, **Skald**. I think that the entire _point_ was that it was out of character for Willow - it showed the dark turn her character was taking. I remember being shocked when she slit that deer’s neck for the resurrection spell. Willow wouldn’t do that! Which was they were getting at, I guess. I am not a huge fan of the last couple seasons, but there was some good stuff in there, too. Besides the obvious (_Once More With Feeling_), I also love _Conversations with Dead People_ and the totally hilarious and highly quotable _Storytellers_. Oh, that wacky Andrew! ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/70 "2009-05-05T19:41:38Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > and it opened the door for two of the worst seasons in TV history Really? You disliked 6 and 7 more than the HAY GUYZ MAGIC == DRUGS OKAY HERE’S THE MESSAGE DID YOU GET THE MESSAGE OKAY ONE MORE TIME THE MESSAGE DID YOU GET IT NOW?!?!?!?! of season 5? ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/71 "2009-05-05T19:54:27Z")
Does cloning count as resurrection? Because the writers of the movie _Alien Resurrection_ sure thought so, as evidenced by the title. I didn’t like the cloned Ripley very much; she was trying to be all comic book lesbian warrior princess. I liked her better as tough and dynamic yet vulnerable and reasonably frightened. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/72 "2009-05-05T20:01:03Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Really? You disliked 6 and 7 more than the HAY GUYZ MAGIC == DRUGS OKAY HERE’S THE MESSAGE DID YOU GET THE MESSAGE OKAY ONE MORE TIME THE MESSAGE DID YOU GET IT NOW?!?!?!?! of season 5? That was season six. Okay, maybe the character of Buffy would have brought her back. But even taking that turn ushered in a whole crapload of badness that I would have happily done without. Spike becoming the show’s moral center, Xander’s continued slide into total apathy, and of course, Willow’s complete character anailation. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/73 "2009-05-05T20:32:20Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > That was season six. You’re totally right. I always mix that up in my head–I think it has something to do with my mental tag for season 6 being “Buffy and Spike S&M sexcapades.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/74 "2009-05-05T20:36:18Z")
Oh, and something I just thought of here… Perhaps one thing that helps define “good” resurrections is their juxtaposition with meaningful, permanent death in the same story? For instance, in Buffy, Tara, Anya, Kendra, Jenny… These are dead characters who stay dead. ---
**Author:** ![boozilu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@boozilu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boozilu)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/75 "2009-05-05T21:27:50Z")
> [@](#): > > John Sheridan in Babylon 5. Not a cheat, because you, the viewer, never really believed he was dead or would die, and (IIRC) you found out he was still alive before you found out he was dead. However, when JMS killed off Kosh it was shocking and the character did stay dead – just shows that killing off an important character and making it stick is better for everyone (except the actor, of course) ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/76 "2009-05-06T15:17:19Z")
Does Athelstane’s “resurrection” in _Ivanhoe_ count? It’s done more for comic effect than a crucial plot point, as he effectively disappears from the story afterward. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/77 "2009-05-06T20:39:54Z")
When I first read **The Princess Bride** , I finally figured out that it was a satire of adventure stories when I got to the part about Westley being resurrected. Up to that point, there had been no hint in the book that magic was a reality in that world, and then not only is resurrection possible but common enough for people to make it a profession. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/78 "2009-05-06T21:26:29Z")
Well, you have to remember that Westley was only MOSTLY dead. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/79 "2009-05-06T23:03:49Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Angel’s return from Hell was a bit of a cheat. Angel became Angelus. Buffy had to kill him. But Willow managed some major mojo and restored his soul right as Buffy skewered him and sent him to the demon dimension. Very poignant, very emotionally painful. So what happens? They find a way to go to the demon dimension and bring him back. At least he suffered for a really long time there before they rescue him, but still, it’s a cheat. Yeah, you had to know Joss would find a way, but still, it’s a cheat. That’s not how Angel came back. No one went to the hell dimension after him. There was just some lightshow in the empty mansion and naked Angel plopped out. They really never fully explained what happened, so most people assume it was “the powers that be” behind it. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124/80 "2009-05-06T23:48:04Z")
In soap operas, coming back from the dead usually occurs because killing off the characters and firing the actors in the first place was a huge-ass mistake. (The firing is often for monetary purposes, though not always.) Plus, they _usually_ add in a safety net by having the death occur in some mysterious way where the body’s missing. So I don’t mind it when the character walks back into town in a stunning reveal. That said, they often play the card too often, especially with villains. I can’t even count how many times _Days of Our Lives_ baddie Stephano DiMera has died/risen (hell, his nickname is “The Phoenix” for a good reason), or James Stenbeck over on _As the World Turns_. One notoriously horrific and cheesey “return from the dead” occured on DOOL when about a dozen longtime characters – i.e., mostly actors over age 35 and thus useless to the writers – were brutally murdered by the hackish head writer James Reilly (RIP) in an attempt to exploit their deaths and gain an audience. We saw all deaths on screen; one was choked by a donut, one was battered with a liquor bottle (a woman who’d struggled with alcoholism – charming, huh?), one was stabbed and stuffed in a pinata, one was mauled by a tiger (mimicking the Roy Horn accident), and another was bludgeoned by a brick and subsequently had his organs donated just to make sure we knew he was well and truly gone. Four months later, the producers realized the audience despised the plot and so all actors were rehired and the characters were revealed to have been secreted away on a hidden island that had been crafted by the main villain as an exact duplicate of Salem, their home town; the island was called Melaswen, which is backwards for New Salem. And no, I’m not kidding. I wish to God I were, because I’m usually a defender of soaps, but the awfulness of this plot had to be seen to be believed. Were the on-screen deaths ever explained? Nope. Never. We never found out exactly how we saw Jack Deveraux die onscreen, his organs distributed to other patients. Of course, Jack Deveraux is a special case, because he was killed off no less than three times in two years, and each time he was later brought back. (The headwriter hated the character and apparently didn’t like the portrayer, despite his popularity.) All this is to say that when killing off the character is a mistake, I don’t have a problem with the resurrection. But the writer had better have a _damn_ good explanation for it. Crappy stuff like the above can ruin a storyline. As a writer of an ongoing story myself, I’ve “killed off” one character who’ll return in upcoming installments; also, two characters who were dead before the story began were revealed to have faked their deaths. In each of these cases, I don’t look on these as cheats, because (with the onscreen death) we know the character has some extraordinary survival capabilities and the only person to see her die is not reliable; with the other characters who faked their deaths, the audience never saw them die in the first place, so all bets are off. I don’t think I would write a big emotional death scene and subsequently bring a character back. Not without indicating that this was a possibility. I’m a big proponent of playing fair with the audience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bringing-characters-back-from-the-dead-generally-a-cheat/495124.md?page=5)