# Is Britain well liked in Europe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219 "2012-12-26T21:03:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/1 "2012-12-26T21:03:42Z")
I’ve pondered this question for quite a while, and was afraid to ask it lest I not like what I heard, anyway, I decided that I should satisfy my curiosity. Are the British well liked in Europe? I always seem to get the impression that the EU consists of a French German alignment and the UK pushed out onto the periphery. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/2 "2012-12-26T21:08:25Z")
I see this quite a lot on this message board; entire nations reduced to a single personality: Israel is this, the Palestinians are that. China is something else. It reduces the discussion to something beneath the quality of a high school mooting society. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/3 "2012-12-26T21:17:19Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > I see this quite a lot on this message board; entire nations reduced to a single personality: Israel is this, the Palestinians are that. China is something else. > > It reduces the discussion to something beneath the quality of a high school mooting society. there are general themes between nations which I think are valid for discussion. Stop whining. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/4 "2012-12-26T21:21:42Z")
Well, you’re naive and intellectually immature but, hey, we all have our crosses to bear. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/5 "2012-12-26T21:21:53Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > I see this quite a lot on this message board; entire nations reduced to a single personality: Israel is this, the Palestinians are that. China is something else. > > It reduces the discussion to something beneath the quality of a high school mooting society. It is possible to answer in generalities. Britain definitely is not popular in Europe - various polls would probably back me up, but the eurovision song contest results back me up too. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/6 "2012-12-26T21:32:03Z")
There is no ‘Britain’. There is (current) policy of (present) Government, which may or may not be linked to other strategies and/or objectives. Example: Cameron’s opposition to the EU Budget serves several causes: quietens the lunatic fringe of his party, helps drive a wedge between Germany and France, draws Merkel closer, begins the building of informal alliance of Northern EU countries that may come in handy at some point. But it’s just a \*realpolitik \*strategy. It is not a personality or a national trait. That kind of thinking is for children. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/7 "2012-12-26T21:38:22Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > There is no ‘Britain’. There is (current) policy of (present) Government, which may or may not be linked to other strategies and/or objectives. Example: Cameron’s opposition to the EU Budget serves several causes: quietens the lunatic fringe of his party, helps drive a wedge between Germany and France, draws Merkel closer, begins the building of informal alliance of Northern EU countries that may come in handy at some point. > > But it’s just a \*realpolitik \*strategy. It is not a personality or a national trait. > > That kind of thinking is for children. Nothing about the OP assumes or implies or even invites debate on the existence of “a personality or a national trait.” It is how Continental Euros **perceive** Britain that makes it popular or unpopular; and the question of whether it is popular or unpopular is one with a definite (once terms/standards are defined) factual answer, which can be inferred from public opinion polls, and even to some extent from anectodal evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/8 "2012-12-26T21:39:06Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Stop whining. > [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Well, you’re naive and intellectually immature but, hey, we all have our crosses to bear. This isn’t appropriate for Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/9 "2012-12-26T21:47:54Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > There is no ‘Britain’. There is (current) policy of (present) Government, which may or may not be linked to other strategies and/or objectives. Example: Cameron’s opposition to the EU Budget serves several causes: quietens the lunatic fringe of his party, helps drive a wedge between Germany and France, draws Merkel closer, begins the building of informal alliance of Northern EU countries that may come in handy at some point. > > But it’s just a \*realpolitik \*strategy. It is not a personality or a national trait. > > That kind of thinking is for children. No one is talking about that **specific** policy, you just brought that up, I’m talking about the last 30 or so years. Suffice to say, a ‘Government’ is supposed to represent some will of the people in its attitudes to institutions and other countries such as the EU and France and Germany as examples. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/10 "2012-12-26T21:54:10Z")
I said it was an example, of one policy by one Government: a demonstration of realpolitik in action. You understand it’s a giant game, right? A series of moves and postures designed to achieve policy goals - there is no liking this country or disliking that country, it’s the business of politics. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/11 "2012-12-26T22:04:01Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > I said it was an example, of one policy by one Government: a demonstration of realpolitik in action. > > You understand it’s a giant game, right? A series of moves and postures designed to achieve policy goals - there is no liking this country or disliking that country, it’s the business of politics. > [@](#): > > Courtesy of **BrainGlutton** > Nothing about the OP assumes or implies or even invites debate on the existence of “a personality or a national trait.” It is how Continental Euros perceive Britain that makes it popular or unpopular; and the question of whether it is popular or unpopular is one with a definite (once terms/standards are defined) factual answer, which can be inferred from public opinion polls, and even to some extent from anectodal evidence. Europe in general has shown a consistent ambivalence in its attitude towards the UK for some time, and I’m trying to understand where it comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/12 "2012-12-26T22:39:29Z")
What nation in Europe is “The Canada” the beloved nice country where you always get a simile when you tell them where your from? ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/13 "2012-12-26T22:45:01Z")
My money would be on Belgium, for the Dutch anyway ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/14 "2012-12-26T22:47:03Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Europe in general has shown a consistent ambivalence in its attitude towards the UK for some time, and I’m trying to understand where it comes from. Perhaps it is based on a consistent ambivalence – which I understand Brits share, if they did not invent it – as to whether the UK is even part of Europe or not. I don’t think the Japanese object to being lumped in with Asia; but some Brits will actually get upset if you suggest they are Europeans. I recall one such being interviewed on _60 Minutes_ – back when the Chunnel was a-building, he was one of those actively opposed to it. “No, we’re not part of Europe!” ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/15 "2012-12-26T22:53:09Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Europe in general has shown a consistent ambivalence in its attitude towards the UK for some time, and I’m trying to understand where it comes from. LOL: You can lead a horse to water … ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/16 "2012-12-26T22:56:54Z")
> [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > My money would be on Belgium, for the Dutch anyway Denmark + Benelux ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/17 "2012-12-27T00:13:15Z")
I didn’t think _anyone_ is well liked in Europe. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/18 "2012-12-27T01:37:58Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > I didn’t think _anyone_ is well liked in Europe. That would explain a lot about European history . . . ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/19 "2012-12-27T01:48:28Z")
I spend a lot of time in France and their attitude towards Britain is very complex. Britain and the British are not loved however Britain is also quite iconic. The British flag is often used in supposedly cool design (as a Brit I don’t find it cool but rather quite tacky) and anything that uses the English language is also thought to be quite trendy and modern. You won’t find many t-shirts with French text on in trendy clothes shops but lots with English text and British and American flags and such. So basically I think it’s quite a complex picture with some parts of British culture being well liked and other things disliked. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219/20 "2012-12-27T02:02:56Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > You understand it’s a giant game, right? A series of moves and postures designed to achieve policy goals - there is no liking this country or disliking that country, it’s the business of politics. Some politicians may think like that; the general populace doesn’t. Something that seems to repeatedly catch the so-called\* “realpolitik” crowd by surprise when they discover that the people they have abused don’t regard it as a game and do things like seize their assets or plant bombs in their capital. So yeah; regardless of what politicians who think they are playing a game believe, most of the world looks at their nation as an entity and have opinions about that entity. - “So-called” because IMHO realpolitik has little to to with reality or realism, despite the name. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britain-well-liked-in-europe/645219.md?page=2)