# Is Britannia ruled today by nearly non-stop crime? (Says Theo. Dalrymple) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 26, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790 "2010-05-26T03:04:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/21 "2010-05-26T11:05:08Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Well, if it’s like that, it’s only because the authorities have let it get that way. That is the thrust of the book. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/22 "2010-05-26T11:38:08Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > When was the last time you saw 2 sets of sports fans in the US fight it out in the parking lots and bars? Random wiki-ing, 23 sports riots: > \* 1971 South Africa rugby union tour of Australia > \* 1981 South Africa rugby union tour of New Zealand > \* 1985 Kenilworth Road riot > \* 1993 Stanley Cup Riot - Canada > \* 1994 Stanley Cup riot - Canada > \* 2006 Basel Hooligan Incident > \* 2007 Catania football violence > \* 2008 Congo football riots > \* 2008 UEFA Cup Final riots > \* Aggieville Riots > \* 2007 A.S. Roma–Manchester United F.C. conflict > \* Czechoslovak Hockey Riots > \* Dinamo Zagreb–Red Star Belgrade riot > \* El Cajon Boulevard Riot > \* Mihalis Filopoulos > \* Football riots Široki Brijeg-Sarajevo > \* Heysel Stadium Disaster > \* 1967 Kayseri Atatürk Stadium disaster > \* Michigan State University student riot > \* Nika riots > \* Richard Riot > \* Rowbottom (riot) > \* Sydney Riot of 1879 > \* 2009 Upton Park riots > I think we can dispense with the Nika riots, that was about 1600 years ago and the Sydney Riot of 1879 … BUT > > the red ones are american, the rest are nonamerican events. Your sports fans are freaking out of control. I swear any time there is a big soccer/footie game anywhere hooligans stomp people into the dust unless the hosting city takes riot precautions. Almost all american sports events go off without riot police on site. I don’t think your list of incidents supports your claim at all. You’ve listed twenty or so incidents all over the world, going back decades (or centuries, in a couple of cases), out of probably hundreds of thousands of sporting events that have taken place. The American stereotype of soccer games regularly descending into riots among fans is wildly exaggerated. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/23 "2010-05-26T11:46:18Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > That is the thrust of the book. See, I didn’t even need to read it. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/24 "2010-05-26T11:56:20Z")
My bike was stolen last week! A full scene of crimes team came out and took fingerprint and DNA evidence. At the same time a full team of detectives canvassed the area looking for witnesses. The DNA came up a match, and after a cross county chase and a stand off, my bike was recovered. Or in other words, in what countries are swiped bicycles investigated? Beyond giving a crime number maybe for insurance purposes. Add me down as another Brit who sleeps well at night not worrying about the pitter patter of not so little feet. ---
**Author:** ![sleepy67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@sleepy67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleepy67)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/25 "2010-05-26T12:09:30Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Have you read the article? Because that’s not what he’s saying at all. He - or rather the book he’s read - is saying that the criminal justice service - courts, police, probation service etc - comprehensively fail the law-abiding citizen. Crimes are not investigated. Too many criminals are let off with cautions. Sentences not decently served. And so on. Saying it comprehensively fails the public is too strong, there are problems with law, the courts, the CPS (DA in US speak) and the Police but as has been said the vast majority of people are not living in fear of crime nor are they often the victim of a crime, let alone experience a serious crime. One of the problems we’ve got is that our prisons are full, hence some people who should be jailed aren’t and some police caution suspects instead of passing the details on to the CPS for prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/26 "2010-05-26T13:07:40Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Anybody who is sensible takes precautions - locking the house and car, locking the bike or bringing it inside, securing ones purse/wallet and not flashing money around. > > Crime happens everywhere - US or Britain. For someone like me who lives in the ass end of nowhere in Connecticut, I am _far_ less likely to suffer some sort of crime than someone living in Boston or New York. The stats are somewhat absurd given how much greater the landmass of the US is. I would say that any random person in Britain is more likely to suffer a crime than someone in some random noncity area of the US. We simply do not have the population density nor the apparent violent brawl culture in the US. > > When was the last time you saw 2 sets of sports fans in the US fight it out in the parking lots and bars? Random wiki-ing, 23 sports riots: > \* 1971 South Africa rugby union tour of Australia > \* 1981 South Africa rugby union tour of New Zealand > \* 1985 Kenilworth Road riot > \* 1993 Stanley Cup Riot - Canada > \* 1994 Stanley Cup riot - Canada > \* 2006 Basel Hooligan Incident > \* 2007 Catania football violence > \* 2008 Congo football riots > \* 2008 UEFA Cup Final riots > \* Aggieville Riots > \* 2007 A.S. Roma–Manchester United F.C. conflict > \* Czechoslovak Hockey Riots > \* Dinamo Zagreb–Red Star Belgrade riot > \* El Cajon Boulevard Riot > \* Mihalis Filopoulos > \* Football riots Široki Brijeg-Sarajevo > \* Heysel Stadium Disaster > \* 1967 Kayseri Atatürk Stadium disaster > \* Michigan State University student riot > \* Nika riots > \* Richard Riot > \* Rowbottom (riot) > \* Sydney Riot of 1879 > \* 2009 Upton Park riots > I think we can dispense with the Nika riots, that was about 1600 years ago and the Sydney Riot of 1879 … BUT > > the red ones are american, the rest are nonamerican events. Your sports fans are freaking out of control. I swear any time there is a big soccer/footie game anywhere hooligans stomp people into the dust unless the hosting city takes riot precautions. Almost all american sports events go off without riot police on site. > > You have serious issues with binge drinking and associated violence that got the [government involved](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bingedrinking-violence-creating-nogo-areas-1872288.html). You have chavs everywhere, we only have gang issues in reasonably sized communities. My friend Tim lives in a small village in the midlands, about 2000 people, same size as mine. He reports binge drinking brawls and chavs in the pub he works in. My town has a similar bar/pizza place/hangout and we have not had any D&D [drunk and disorderly] incidents there in about 4 years. The closest we have to a chav population are about 5 emo goth kids. They lurk about listening to music and are about as menacing as a care bear. …come on, your not serious, right? Your citing the 1981 Springbok Tour of New Zealand as an example of sports fans out of control and hooligans stomping people into the dust? Can I suggest you break open a history book, or at the very least the wiki page, and find out what happened in New Zealand in 1981 and also find out a bit about the history of apartheid. Then you could explain why listing only three riots in the US, as compared to 1 “riot” in New Zealand and 2 riots in Australia and 1 riot in the Congo and 2 riots in Canada is evidence of anything you have asserted. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/27 "2010-05-26T13:11:42Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > As a Briton who typically goes months without wondering about any of that, at even the most casual level, I’d say that the above statement is a gross exaggeration, amounting to a distortion of the truth. Actually, I wouldn’t – I’d say it was bollocks. Seconded. Exaggerated bollocks. Not that the courts and police couldn’t stand more rigour, but that was virtually unreadable bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/28 "2010-05-26T13:16:50Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Hang on, Scots are stingy, and therefore rich, right? Damn it’s hard keeping my racist stereotypes straight. Right. It’s the WELSH who are thieves. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/29 "2010-05-26T13:26:55Z")
The average Englishman is not afraid of random rampaging gypsies / Poles / homosexuals etc. but the Daily Mail is. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/30 "2010-05-26T13:43:44Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I don’t think your list of incidents supports your claim at all. You’ve listed twenty or so incidents all over the world, going back decades (or centuries, in a couple of cases), out of probably hundreds of thousands of sporting events that have taken place. The American stereotype of soccer games regularly descending into riots among fans is wildly exaggerated. and if you note, I said you could ignore the roman one and the 1800s one :rolleyes: And how do you explain all the footage of soccer fights that hit the news? How many discrete entries on youtube would I find of hooliganism. Hell it is even _called_ hooliganism. Our american foot ball games do not tend to end in bar fights and hooliganism. Hell, Britain gets 11 [paragraphs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism)and the US get only 7, which includes Canada [not fair, we don’t own Canada, last I checked] [We dont have the government step in to keep us from traveling](http://www.self-catering-breaks.com/news/74121545.html): British authorities have revealed measures to halt the World Cup travel plans of more than 3,000 football hooligans who have in the past been convicted for the violent behaviour at matches. Officials in the UK are looking into ways to avoid all the embarrassment caused by gangs of soccer thugs who would want to travel to South Africa this summer in a bid to ‘support’ the English national team through the competition at the 2010 FIFA World Cup. and this list are all happy little boys out for a walk about town: ``` * Aldershot Town – A Company * Arsenal – The Gooners, The Herd * Aston Villa – Villa Youth, Steamers,Villa Hardcore, C-Crew * Birmingham City – Zulus * Blackpool – The Muckers * Bolton Wanderers - Cuckoo Boys, Bolton Service Youth * Bradford City – The Ointment * Brentford – Hounslow Mentals, TW8 Casuals, Brentford Youth Element (Brentford Under 5's) * Bristol City – City Service Firm * Burnley – Suicide Squad * Carlisle United – Border City Firm, bagpipes * Charlton Athletic – Cockney Firestarters, B Mob * Chelsea – Headhunters * Coventry City – The Legion * Crystal Palace - Dirty 30 * Derby County – Derby Lunatic Fringe * Everton – County Road Cutters * Fulham – Thames Valley Travellers * Grimsby Town – Cleethorpes Beach Patrol, Grimsby Hit Squad * Huddersfield Town – Huddersfield Young Casuals, udder * Hull City – Hull City Psychos * Leicester City – Baby Squad * Liverpool – The Urchins * Luton Town – The MIGs * Manchester City – Guvnors * Manchester United – The Red Army * Middlesbrough – The Frontline * Millwall – Bushwackers * Newcastle United F.C. – Newcastle Gremlins * Nottingham Forest F.C. – Forest Executive Crew * Norwich City – Norwich Hit Squad * Oldham Athletic – Fine Young Casuals * Oxford United – South Midlands Hit Squad * Plymouth Argyle – The Central Element * Portsmouth – 6.57 Crew * Preston North End – Preston Para Squad * Queens Park Rangers – Bushbabies * Sheffield United – Blades Business Crew * Sheffield Wednesday – Owls Crime Squad * Southend United – CS Crew * Stoke City – Naughty Forty * Sunderland – Seaburn Casuals * Swindon Town – The Aggro Boys; Swindon Active Service (SAS) * Tottenham Hotspur – Yid Army * West Bromwich Albion – Section Five * West Ham United – Inter City Firm * Wolverhampton Wanderers – Subway Army ``` and I really didnt see much involving the US on [Hooli-News](http://www.hooli-news.co.uk/home.php) either. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/31 "2010-05-26T13:46:52Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …come on, your not serious, right? Your citing the 1981 Springbok Tour of New Zealand as an example of sports fans out of control and hooligans stomping people into the dust? Can I suggest you break open a history book, or at the very least the wiki page, and find out what happened in New Zealand in 1981 and also find out a bit about the history of apartheid. Then you could explain why listing only three riots in the US, as compared to 1 “riot” in New Zealand and 2 riots in Australia and 1 riot in the Congo and 2 riots in Canada is evidence of anything you have asserted. I did not make the original list, I got it googling for sports riots and wiki popped up with it. Check out the response post further down where I do spend more than 5 minutes googling hooliganism. Lots of good information there, or check [http://www.hooli-news.co.uk/home.php](http://www.hooli-news.co.uk/home.php) as they seem to be so fixated on hooliganism that they scan the internet and compile all the hooliganism reports and videos several times daily. I might add this seems to be a UK concern, not a US webpage. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/32 "2010-05-26T13:57:13Z")
You don’t know what you’re talking about ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/33 "2010-05-26T14:02:28Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > and if you note, I said you could ignore the roman one and the 1800s one :rolleyes: > > And how do you explain all the footage of soccer fights that hit the news? How many discrete entries on youtube would I find of hooliganism. Hell it is even _called_ hooliganism. Our american foot ball games do not tend to end in bar fights and hooliganism. > > Hell, Britain gets 11 [paragraphs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism)and the US get only 7, which includes Canada [not fair, we don’t own Canada, last I checked] > > [We dont have the government step in to keep us from traveling](http://www.self-catering-breaks.com/news/74121545.html): > > British authorities have revealed measures to halt the World Cup travel plans of more than 3,000 football hooligans who have in the past been convicted for the violent behaviour at matches. > > Officials in the UK are looking into ways to avoid all the embarrassment caused by gangs of soccer thugs who would want to travel to South Africa this summer in a bid to ‘support’ the English national team through the competition at the 2010 FIFA World Cup. > > and this list are all happy little boys out for a walk about town: > > ``` > * Aldershot Town – A Company > * Arsenal – The Gooners, The Herd > * Aston Villa – Villa Youth, Steamers,Villa Hardcore, C-Crew > * Birmingham City – Zulus > * Blackpool – The Muckers > * Bolton Wanderers - Cuckoo Boys, Bolton Service Youth > * Bradford City – The Ointment > * Brentford – Hounslow Mentals, TW8 Casuals, Brentford Youth Element (Brentford Under 5's) > * Bristol City – City Service Firm > * Burnley – Suicide Squad > * Carlisle United – Border City Firm, bagpipes > * Charlton Athletic – Cockney Firestarters, B Mob > * Chelsea – Headhunters > * Coventry City – The Legion > * Crystal Palace - Dirty 30 > * Derby County – Derby Lunatic Fringe > * Everton – County Road Cutters > * Fulham – Thames Valley Travellers > * Grimsby Town – Cleethorpes Beach Patrol, Grimsby Hit Squad > * Huddersfield Town – Huddersfield Young Casuals, udder > * Hull City – Hull City Psychos > * Leicester City – Baby Squad > * Liverpool – The Urchins > * Luton Town – The MIGs > * Manchester City – Guvnors > * Manchester United – The Red Army > * Middlesbrough – The Frontline > * Millwall – Bushwackers > * Newcastle United F.C. – Newcastle Gremlins > * Nottingham Forest F.C. – Forest Executive Crew > * Norwich City – Norwich Hit Squad > * Oldham Athletic – Fine Young Casuals > * Oxford United – South Midlands Hit Squad > * Plymouth Argyle – The Central Element > * Portsmouth – 6.57 Crew > * Preston North End – Preston Para Squad > * Queens Park Rangers – Bushbabies > * Sheffield United – Blades Business Crew > * Sheffield Wednesday – Owls Crime Squad > * Southend United – CS Crew > * Stoke City – Naughty Forty > * Sunderland – Seaburn Casuals > * Swindon Town – The Aggro Boys; Swindon Active Service (SAS) > * Tottenham Hotspur – Yid Army > * West Bromwich Albion – Section Five > * West Ham United – Inter City Firm > * Wolverhampton Wanderers – Subway Army > > ``` > > and I really didnt see much involving the US on [Hooli-News](http://www.hooli-news.co.uk/home.php) either. So the Brits are more organised. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/34 "2010-05-26T14:05:56Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I did not make the original list, I got it googling for sports riots and wiki popped up with it. > > Check out the response post further down where I do spend more than 5 minutes googling hooliganism. Lots of good information there, or check [http://www.hooli-news.co.uk/home.php](http://www.hooli-news.co.uk/home.php) as they seem to be so fixated on hooliganism that they scan the internet and compile all the hooliganism reports and videos several times daily. I might add this seems to be a UK concern, not a US webpage. …regardless of where you got the list, you cited it in support of your position. Can you explain how the 1981 Springbok Tour Protests help support your position? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/35 "2010-05-26T14:14:28Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > And how do you explain all the footage of soccer fights that hit the news? How many discrete entries on youtube would I find of hooliganism. Hell it is even _called_ hooliganism. Our american foot ball games do not tend to end in bar fights and hooliganism. > > Hell, Britain gets 11 [paragraphs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism)and the US get only 7, which includes Canada [not fair, we don’t own Canada, last I checked] Counting the number of incidents that make the news is not a vliad way to determine how often those incidents happen. It’s colored by what news organizations choose to report. When I was growing up in Lexington, Kentucky, there was rioting in the streets whenever the Kentucky basketball team made the Final Four. It wasn’t widely considered newsworthy, however. Counting paragraphs on a Wikipedia page is even worse, since Wikipedia is not a reliable source because anyone can edit any page at any time. I could go to that page right now and delete the eleven paragraphs about football hooliganism in England or add a bunch of paragraphs in the United States section. Would that count as evidence that the relative frequency of incidents in the two countries had changed? ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/36 "2010-05-26T14:31:24Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > When was the last time you saw 2 sets of sports fans in the US fight it out in the parking lots and bars? Random wiki-ing, 23 sports riots: When was the last time some mentalist walked into a British school and shot the fuck out of the students? 14 years ago, in Dunblane. There’s been three school shootings in the UK in the last hundred years, one of them resulted in no fatalities. There’s [virtually](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#United_States) three school shootings a minute in the US. Note to retards: obvious hyperbole. > [@aruvqan](#): > > the red ones are american, the rest are nonamerican events. Your sports fans are freaking out of control. I swear any time there is a big soccer/footie game anywhere hooligans stomp people into the dust unless the hosting city takes riot precautions. You swear? What the fuck would you know? How many football games have you been to? > [@aruvqan](#): > > Almost all american sports events go off without riot police on site. Almost all British sport events go off without riot police on site, too. Rioting at a football game is rare. Rioting at any other sporting event is virtually non-existent. > [@aruvqan](#): > > You have chavs everywhere, we only have gang issues in reasonably sized communities. Oh my fucking God. You just compared chavs to the Bloods and the Crips? What do you think “chavs” actually are? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/37 "2010-05-26T14:46:40Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …regardless of where you got the list, you cited it in support of your position. Can you explain how the 1981 Springbok Tour Protests help support your position? read my lips - it was listed as a sports riot. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/38 "2010-05-26T14:56:13Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > read my lips - it was listed as a sports riot. > > Deal with it. …so your saying it doesn’t support your position? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/39 "2010-05-26T15:08:55Z")
I went to Ohio State, and there was couch burning and huge, blowout keg parties every time they beat Michigan, and the city would send the horse cops to patrol the off-campus area. I doubt there was a significantly increased incidence of fist fighting, but I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790/40 "2010-05-26T15:39:45Z")
2 cents. You have to lock your shit up or the frackers will steal it. Now lets try it with two different emphasis. YOU have to lock YOUR shit up or the frackers will steal it. Or You have to lock your shit up or the FRACKERS will STEAL it. It sounds to me like currently Britian is better represented by the first and America perhaps by the second. It really doesnt matter the relative levels of crime or how likely they are to be solved. But, IMO it IS rather disturbing that socially at some level crime is just being accepted and its as much or more the victims fault than the criminals. Thats just fucked up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-britannia-ruled-today-by-nearly-non-stop-crime-says-theo-dalrymple/540790.md?page=3)