# Is Buddhism a philosophy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 25, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372 "2005-05-25T01:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/1 "2005-05-25T01:46:46Z")
In other words, essentially, for its followers, NOT a religion. This is how I’ve always understood it, not least because for Buddhists man is the highest authority, and there is arguably no God. Further, the impermanence built into Buddhism militates against (dogmatic and fundamental) religion. Its emphasis on enlightenment (the literal meaning of Buddhism) and moderation (or the middle way) also support an understanding of it as a philosophy, rather than a religion. What sayest Buddhists on the board, given that the choice between whether to ascribe the word ‘philosophy’ or ‘religion’ to the path one follows is of great importance? ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/2 "2005-05-25T02:02:55Z")
First, I am not a Buddhist or an expert on Buddhism. This is based on my general obesrvations; and I did study seriously philosophy in college. Best line I ever heard about Busshism is that it is a philosophy in search of a god. Basically, it is a philosophical system. An atheist could very well be a Buddhist. For Buddhists, whether or not god(s) exist really isn’t important. Even if there is no god, Buddhism would be a good way to live. As for a “religion”, the problem is that Buddhism is very alien to Western religions. Buddhism isn’t about following god’s commandments, accepting god (or, his son) as your personal savior, or submitting yourself to the will of god. Thus to a Western mindset, Buddhism doesn’t look like what is typically thought of as a religion. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/3 "2005-05-25T02:02:35Z")
Are religions philosophies? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/4 "2005-05-25T02:14:00Z")
You don’t need a god to have a religion. Religions need four things: (1) a group of believers, who share (2) a coherent set of beliefs about the nature of the universe, (3) who therefore have a code of day-to-day behavior (i.e., ethics), and (4) participate in certain rituals and activities (either as individuals or as a group, or both) that are about expressing the belief system. Buddhism qualifies on all four points. twicks, PhD, sociology of religion ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/5 "2005-05-25T02:29:07Z")
Interesting, twickster, but the point I’m really after is whether Buddhists see themselves as following a philosophy, a set of teachings (as someone who belongs to the Foucauldian school or the Frankfurt school or the Popperian school might), or as holding religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/6 "2005-05-25T02:36:24Z")
Sorry, misunderstood your question. I’m not sure whay you say > [@](#): > > the choice between whether to ascribe the word ‘philosophy’ or ‘religion’ to the path one follows is of great importance In terms of the day-to-day life of the Buddhist, what difference does it make? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/7 "2005-05-25T03:30:49Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Religions need four things: (1) a group of believers, who share (2) a coherent set of beliefs about the nature of the universe, (3) who therefore have a code of day-to-day behavior (i.e., ethics), and (4) participate in certain rituals and activities (either as individuals or as a group, or both) that are about expressing the belief system. Interesting. What would you call it if you had, say, the first three, but no rituals? Like, just a bunch of people who share the same beliefs and code of ethics? ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/8 "2005-05-25T03:50:22Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Interesting. What would you call it if you had, say, the first three, but no rituals? Like, just a bunch of people who share the same beliefs and code of ethics? I was thinking what a luxury to be doing a PhD in a branch of the social sciences where definitions are agreed upon! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/9 "2005-05-25T04:48:33Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Religions need four things: (1) a group of believers, who share (2) a coherent set of beliefs about the nature of the universe, (3) who therefore have a code of day-to-day behavior (i.e., ethics), and (4) participate in certain rituals and activities (either as individuals or as a group, or both) that are about expressing the belief system. So how does this exclude, say, lawyers? ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/10 "2005-05-25T05:41:39Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > So how does this exclude, say, lawyers? Freemasons, Communists… ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/11 "2005-05-25T06:10:40Z")
IMHO, the Buddhist belief system and practice remains coherant even if one does not believe in reincarnation or other supernatural claims. Some Westerners practice Buddhism in this fashion: it seems acceptable to call it a philosophy. Add back belief in reincarnation and certain supernatural elements and Buddhism becomes more recognizable as a religion. I suspect that a majority of practicing Buddhists worldwide are in this camp. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/12 "2005-05-25T06:17:44Z")
There is a book entitled [Buddhism Without Beliefs](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1573226564/ref=wl_it_dp/103-4708319-2856664?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=I1798TZNLZ3O5&v=glance&colid=110VCGJQTPINL) by Stephen Batchelor. I have not read it, but you may find the Amazon comments interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/13 "2005-05-25T06:47:26Z")
I would say that Buddhism is a creed at least, for some a religion, for others a philosophy perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/14 "2005-05-25T12:53:50Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Interesting. What would you call it if you had, say, the first three, but no rituals? Like, just a bunch of people who share the same beliefs and code of ethics? I’m not sure that’s entiredly possible – if only because the category “ritual” is pretty damn amorphous. What I mean by it is any activity where the primary point is expressing or enhancing or … whatever … one’s relationship to the sacred. For instance, in Quakerism, the ritual consists primarily of meeting for worship – which is gathering together in a group for silent contemplation. Not real flashy – but prayer (even silent, individual prayer) is a form of ritual. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/15 "2005-05-25T13:30:12Z")
Also, there are theistic variants of Buddhism that accept the idea of a deity or deities. Just to confuse the issue a little further. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/16 "2005-05-25T14:37:20Z")
As a practising Buddhist, I would have to say most would just shrug their shoulders and say it didn’t much matter. And I would agree with that. Whenever I am asked this question (more often than you might think), I can answer only as I understand. And my understanding is that ‘technically’ it is only a philosophy as it has no dogma, as with most religion. Not to contradict the Phd, or anything. As I said, I have never met a Buddhist who could get worked up over the issue. And this is only my understanding. “Nothing lasts forever, All beings suffer, All is selfless, Quiet abiding brings Peace.” –from the Four Sentence Sutra ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/17 "2005-05-25T14:49:36Z")
OK, basically nearly everyone who posted here is wron, or at least half-right. There are several major strains of Buddhism, primarily Theravada and Mahayana. Mahayana is definitely a relgion, though you could argue about Thervada. Most people in America know only about Therevada, but they are very much outnumbered by Mahayanists, which includes pretty much all of China and Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/18 "2005-05-25T15:28:07Z")
> [@Measure for Measure](#): > > There is a book entitled [Buddhism Without Beliefs](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1573226564/ref=wl_it_dp/103-4708319-2856664?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=I1798TZNLZ3O5&v=glance&colid=110VCGJQTPINL) by Stephen Batchelor. I have not read it, but you may find the Amazon comments interesting. I would just say that this is an excellent book. Buddhism ahs a lot to offer in terms of it’s philosophical underpinnings and that is what this book offers. It does not dwell on the more ritualistic aspects like meditation, or the more “supernatural” like reincarnation, but it does open your mind to many things about the nature of being. I am willing to say it changed my life. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/19 "2005-05-25T15:43:20Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > As a practising Buddhist, I would have to say most would just shrug their shoulders and say it didn’t much matter. And I would agree with that. Thus my question to the OP – why would a believer care? Let alone consider it “important”? ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372/20 "2005-05-25T18:37:10Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > I would just say that this is an excellent book. Buddhism ahs a lot to offer in terms of it’s philosophical underpinnings and that is what this book offers. It does not dwell on the more ritualistic aspects like meditation, or the more “supernatural” like reincarnation, but it does open your mind to many things about the nature of being. I am willing to say it changed my life. Do you really consider meditation to be mere ritual? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-buddhism-a-philosophy/305372.md?page=2)