Is burial at sea a violation of Muslim belief?

[Markxxx]

Here is a decent site regarding Islamic burials

OBL burial seems to fall under this

If a person dies on a ship and if there is no fear of the decay of the dead body and if there is no problem in retaining it for sometime on the ship, it should be kept on it and buried in the ground after reaching the land. Otherwise, after giving Ghusl, Hunut, Kafan and Namaz-e-Mayyit it should be lowered into the sea in a vessel of clay or with a weight tied to its feet. And as far as possible it should not be lowered at a point where it is eaten up immediately by the sea predators.

If it is feared that an enemy may dig up the grave and exhume the dead body and amputate its ears or nose or other limbs, it should be lowered into sea, if possible, as stated in the foregoing rule.

[Colibri]

@JillGat

Pretty sure murdering innocent people is a violation of Islam, too.

@CitizenPained

There are a billion Muslims in the world. Of course someone is gonna be pissed.

@LouisB

He was a mass murderer and would have murdered more if he had lived. If he had been dumped in a landfill and left to the mercy of rats it wouldn’t bother me at all. He’s D & G; why should anyone care what happened to the carrion?

@Baron_Skinley_Von_Clipper

I hear that muslims demand that the corpse is washed before burial, I wonder how many of the Carl Vinson crew needed to ‘visit the bathroom’ at that time?

[Moderating]

This is General Questions; we are looking for factual answers with regard to the OP, not your personal opinions about bin Laden or about Islam. Please refrain from comments like this. No warnings issued.

This goes for everyone. If you can’t contribute factual information here, please refrain from posting in this thread.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[bengangmo]

No matter what, this feels like a “half measure” from the US.

There was no way they were ever going to “win” in his burial.

1. Do it properly, in full accordance with Muslem rituals, marking his grave etc and it becomes a shrine to his memory - which is unpalatable
2. Bury it in an unmarked grave and information will leak out
3. Bury it with no rituals at all, unneccessarily inflammatory

It seems to me here that what was done was a sort of compromise that has given the best expected outcome.

[SciFiSam]

Does anyone here know what version of Islam Osama Bin Laden actually adhered to? That makes a difference as to whether burial at sea is a violation of his and his family’s belief.

[Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension]

He was apparently raised a Wahhabi Muslim, according to Wikipedia, although there is a long discussion of Sayyid Qutb as an influence, I would imagine burial preferences would be standard for Wahhabists where he grew up.

That said, I’m out of my depth here, so apologies in advance.

[BrotherCadfael]

@BigT

I don’t think the refrigeration is a factor. Islam seems to require a hasty burial (24 hours has been cited).

The 24 hour requirement almost certainly came from the necessities of life and death in a hot climate without refrigeration.
"He looks like he’s asleep, and its a shame that he won’t keep.
But it’s summer, and we’re runnin’ out of ice!"

[Farmer_Jane]

@Colibri

[Moderating]

This is General Questions; we are looking for factual answers with regard to the OP, not your personal opinions about bin Laden or about Islam. Please refrain from comments like this. No warnings issued.

This goes for everyone. If you can’t contribute factual information here, please refrain from posting in this thread.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

Uh, that wasn’t about my personal opinion. Statistically speaking, of not all Muslims follow certain traditions and are part of the same sect and there over a billion in the world, bin Laden’s burial is bound to piss someone off.

[Colibri]

@CitizenPained

Uh, that wasn’t about my personal opinion. Statistically speaking, of not all Muslims follow certain traditions and are part of the same sect and there over a billion in the world, bin Laden’s burial is bound to piss someone off.

[Moderating]

Yeah, without factual support or a cite it was your personal opinion. Keep it out of GQ. If you have an issue with my moderating, take it to ATMB.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[Farmer_Jane]

Fixed.
Statistically speaking, not all Muslims follow certain traditions and are part of the same sect and there over a billion in the world, so bin Laden’s burial is bound to piss someone off.
Some people are mad
People who would be bothered are apparently bothered
and
not everyone agrees.

In terms of the basic requirements for Muslim burials, standard practice involves placing the body in a grave with the head pointed toward the holy city of Mecca. Burial at sea is rare in Islam, though Muslim websites say it is permitted in certain circumstances. One is during a long voyage where the body may decompose and pose a health hazard to a ship’s passengers, an exception noted on Monday by Tunisian scholar Ahmed al-Gharbi. Another is if there is a risk of enemies digging up a and grave and exhuming or mutilating the body.

Dr Saud al-Fanisan, former dean of the faculty of sharia law in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, said that if a body was buried at sea it should be protected from fish. In the words of alislam.org, the body should be lowered into the water “in a vessel of clay or with a weight tied to its feet”.

Mohammed al-Qubaisi, Dubai’s grand mufti, said of Bin Laden’s burial: “They can say they buried him at sea, but they cannot say they did it according to Islam. Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances. This is not one of them.”

Abdul-Sattar al-Janabi, who preaches at Baghdad’s Abu Hanifa mosque, said: "What was done by the Americans is forbidden by Islam and might provoke some Muslims.

Apparently, clerics in the U.S. are not mad.

Denying bin Laden a ground burial also prevents his grave from becoming a shrine that would motivate more jihadis – or a site that would invite abuse and retribution from his enemies.

Many US Muslims and US-based scholars, including New York University chaplain Khalid Latif, support the administration’s decision.

“The decision to bury bin Laden at sea exemplifies for us how sharia is meant to function as it takes into consideration what would be best for society on a whole through a lens of compassion and mercy,” Imam Latif wrote in a CNN column. “Who would want this man buried next to their loved one?” he asked, adding that ground burials would give enemies or admirers opportunities for abuse or glorification.

[Dahnlor]

Usually, when I see the word “statistically” as a hyperlink in a sentence that appeals to statistics to make its point, I would expect the link to open a page with actual, relevant statistics, not the Wikipedia page for “Statistics”.

Just sayin’.

[Raguleader]

@Dahnlor

Usually, when I see the word “statistically” as a hyperlink in a sentence that appeals to statistics to make its point, I would expect the link to open a page with actual, relevant statistics, not the Wikipedia page for “Statistics”.

Just sayin’.

Plus, do we allow Wikipedia cites now? I mean, he could have changed that page to say anything he wanted about Statistics.

[Colibri]

@CitizenPained

Fixed.

That’s better. Let’s try to do the same in the future instead of just posting your unsupported opinion.

[Nava]

@CC

This, from the NYC article cited above:

These exceptions matter because Bin Laden’s religious status is a matter of contention among Muslims. On one end of the spectrum are Muslims who consider him an outsider to Islam: if not quite an apostate, a terrorist whose right to an official Muslim prayer is debatable at best. (In 2005 the Islamic Commission of Spain essentially excommunicated Bin Laden, arguing that he should not be treated as a Muslim.) They must find it as perplexing as I do that the United States government granted the man it identified not as a Muslim, but as a “mass murderer of Muslims,” the dubious honor of a quasi-Islamic funeral.

Underline mine, as it’s the part I’m responding to. I don’t know about the US, but in Spain “won’t receive a proper burial” used to be a specific penalty - for centuries we had no problem killing criminals and then getting them properly buried; mass graves from Civil War(s) battles are usually mixed-side, as are unknown-soldier areas of cementeries, but for much of the Middle Ages they were separated by religion when identification was possible. For a couple of recent decades, ETA used the big power station in the town where I grew up as a “training field”: pretty much every power failure was caused by one of their pups planting a bomb, and often, by one managing to hit himself. When the Guardia Civil found a wounded moron, they’d take him/her and any loose parts they could recover to the nearest hospital; when they found a dead moron, they’d call the coroner and take the body to the family for burial after the autopsy. Alive, this was your enemy; dead, it’s a body that must be buried with the respect one gives to dead bodies by default.

[Farmer_Jane]

@Dahnlor

Usually, when I see the word “statistically” as a hyperlink in a sentence that appeals to statistics to make its point, I would expect the link to open a page with actual, relevant statistics, not the Wikipedia page for “Statistics”.

Just sayin’.

I was just making sure he knew I wasn’t making an unsubstantiated claim on what the word meant. I thought I was saying the obvious, but :eek:

[Farmer_Jane]

@Colibri

That’s better. Let’s try to do the same in the future instead of just posting your unsupported opinion.

nods seriously We should do this in the whole thread. In all of the GQ threads.

//my unsubstantiated opinion

[Colibri]

@CitizenPained

nods seriously We should do this in the whole thread. In all of the GQ threads.

Now that you know proper procedure, I’ll at the very least expect it from you in the future.

[Raguleader]

@Colibri

Now that you know proper procedure, I’ll at the very least expect it from you in the future.

Cite? duck and run

[universalwanderings]

We have the question of whether Osama was doing his god, allah’s will. Most Moslems say he was not so that being the case he did not follow the beliefs. So, it is a mute point. It really doesn’t matter. I believe (unsupported opinion) that Osama forfeited any humane or religious
rights by the inhumane atrocities he was responsible for

[Colibri]

@universalwanderings

We have the question of whether Osama was doing his god, allah’s will. Most Moslems say he was not so that being the case he did not follow the beliefs. So, it is a mute point. It really doesn’t matter. I believe (unsupported opinion) that Osama forfeited any humane or religious
rights by the inhumane atrocities he was responsible for

[Moderating]

Once again, we are not looking for your personal opinions or speculation about the issue, but rather factual information.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[scripthippe]

@JillGat

Pretty sure murdering innocent people is a violation of Islam, too.

When you execute someone in the USA you still give them dignity (last rights, last meal, etc). Is there ever any reasonable effort to give war criminals a decent burial?

What about the idea that his grave might become the sight of even more bloodshed, or that it would be defiled?