# Is burning a US flag more offensive than burning a US map or a banner with "USA" written on it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 4, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952 "2010-06-04T17:07:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/21 "2010-06-04T23:18:57Z")
I pretended the question was about my own country’s flag and map, and found I still didn’t care so that’s what I voted for. I’d love to introduce a special sales tax on flags that goes into a patriotism fund. On Australia Day we could put it toward some extra fireworks, or use it to run prime-time tv commercials about how awesome Australia is, or something like that. Even if you steal a flag to burn, the inevitable purchase of a new flag by the owner is going to top up the patriotism fund. That would be so cool. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/22 "2010-06-04T23:19:10Z")
I said I find all of these actions somewhat offensive. That doesn’t mean they should be made illegal. There are plenty of things people can do that I don’t personally like, but are legal. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/23 "2010-06-05T00:08:24Z")
For some reason, I’d rate them in terms of offensiveness (from most to least): 1. burning the flag; 2. burning the banner with the country’s name; 3. burning the map. 1 is close to 2, but 3 is relatively far. I don’t know why, but burning the map doesn’t strike me as especially offensive. It’s probably not rational: someone who intends to burn the map probably does it with the same mindset as someone who’d burn the flag. But it strikes me as less of a national symbol. But just like everyone else in this thread, I can’t think of any reason why it should be made illegal. It’s free speech. But I’m likely to regard you as a jackass if I see you do it, and I’ll probably dismiss whatever complaints you may have as coming from an extremist. And if you do it to the flag of an entity I hold dear, it’ll definitely make me angry. I may not go try to kick you ass (I’m not strong, and maybe you’d be the one who’d beat me up) but it’s definitely “fighting words”. > [@Nature\_s\_Call](#): > > However, I voted flag burning as the most offensive. Clearly not so with Penn & Teller and clearly not so in the case of an accidental burning. I presume the poll intends “burning in protest.” For some reason I’m reminded of Bart and Homer Simpson’s attempt at impressing Lisa’s British husband-to-be the first time he visits Springfield. “Throw compost on it!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/24 "2010-06-05T00:43:34Z")
I think anyone burning a BP travel map these days will probably get a thumbs up from just about everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/25 "2010-06-05T02:03:53Z")
I don’t find any of them at all offensive. It’s not a personal insult, unless you happen to be the fucker responsible for whatever they’re pissed off about. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/26 "2010-06-05T02:38:33Z")
I don’t find flag burning offensive (just futile – what is it going to accomplish other than to piss off people?), but plenty of people do. I actually feel proud that my country allows you to burn a symbol of it as a show of how committed we are to free speech. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/27 "2010-06-05T02:59:48Z")
I find this incredible and offensive. A vote on the flag and the flag is losing. [http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/05/06/american-flag-banned-america/](http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/05/06/american-flag-banned-america/) ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/28 "2010-06-05T04:04:19Z")
> [@Electric\_Warrior](#): > > Neither of them is offensive to me, and I voted accordingly, but burning the flag certainly has a symbolism that burning a map or banner lacks, because there are rituals in American society associated specifically with the flag. If someone burned a map or banner I would be confused, but if someone burned a US flag I would immediately know they were pissed off with the country for whatever reason. > > - **Electric Warrior** , American Personally, I’m old enough that if someone burned a map of the USA, I would instantly think “Bonanza”! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/29 "2010-06-05T06:24:58Z")
About the only reason I would care if you burned a flag or map would be if you risked setting someone or something on fire. Make flag toilet paper for all I care. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/30 "2010-06-05T06:58:09Z")
Burning the U.S. flag is most offensive because in most cases it’s a deliberate attempt to offend, and I find deliberately offending people… offensive. I’d just find burning a map or a banner with the “USA” on it confusing. What’s the point? Is someone trying to be outrageous without outraging anyone? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/31 "2010-06-05T08:46:52Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > Burning the U.S. flag is most offensive because in most cases it’s a deliberate attempt to offend, and I find deliberately offending people… offensive. That’s exactly how I feel. But I don’t find it more offensive than when people do it here. Well, maybe than I do in the pit where people seem to be encouraged to go over the top. I’d have to investigate the intent behind the other things. But chances are they are also trying to offend. Also, just because they aren’t saying anything about me doesn’t mean I can’t be offended. It’s called empathy. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/32 "2010-06-05T08:56:50Z")
Say they’d just burned a banner with Tom Hicks on it, would that be equally offensive? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/33 "2010-06-05T10:50:53Z")
A flag is just a piece of cloth. Go ahead and burn a t-shirt with my family name, a map of my country, and my grandmother’s wedding picture on it. I’ll be amused at how foolish you are. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/34 "2010-06-05T22:01:51Z")
The flag’s an official symbol of the country in a way a map or banner isn’t. That’s why it’s more offensive to burn it. And burning it may be protected speech, but so is shouting “I hate [n-word]s” at a basketball game. It’s only protected on principle, not because it’s actually an act worth protecting in and of itself. If you get your ass kicked over it, you had it coming, even if you didn’t break the law. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/35 "2010-06-05T22:10:09Z")
Not offended by any of it. I voted against the flag in that Fox poll, by the way. I have no idea what part of real life it’s supposed to be in reference to, but a question like that deserves every bit of the trolling that it’s getting. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/36 "2010-06-05T22:54:24Z")
As a foreigner I don’t care about any of those. I’m sure due to our imperial ways and being best buddies with the Great Satan that the Union Flag has been singed a few times… I can fully understand why a member of country x would be rather annoyed at the burning of country x’s flag, as its an obvious act of hostility towards that country, and therefore people in said country. That said, no need to get worked up about the actual act, but rather the sentiment being it. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952/37 "2010-06-05T23:39:13Z")
I just don’t see the point. It’s like quit being so emo and say what you need to say; stop causing a fire hazard, ya putz. Want to really make a statement? Burn\* yourself. \* People don’t forget that shit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-burning-a-us-flag-more-offensive-than-burning-a-us-map-or-a-banner-with-usa-written-on-it/541952.md?page=1)