# Is Bush an apocalyptic Christian who believes the "end times" are coming soon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114 "2006-04-10T17:44:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/1 "2006-04-10T17:44:34Z")
Is President Bush’s denomination one that believes the end times are coming soon? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/2 "2006-04-10T17:48:54Z")
Only since the year 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stark_Raven_Mad)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/3 "2006-04-10T17:56:47Z")
No cite (it was a print source - an issue of _Time_ magazine IIRC), but I think he’s a Methodist, so no, no apocalyptic delusions. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/4 "2006-04-10T18:36:39Z")
Actually, I’m ashamed to admit that he’s nominally Episcopalian, or so I heard. Episcopalians as a whole consider the End Times to be nonsense. However, I’m not about to attempt to speak for Mr. Bush. CJ ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/5 "2006-04-10T18:38:14Z")
Bush has been “outed” several times as being a mock-Christian. E.g., the book by an old friend of his who taped their phone calls. Lot’s of references in it to how Bush was “passing” as a conservative Christian. He is surrounded by NeoCons, and NeoCons are not big on morals. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/6 "2006-04-10T18:42:07Z")
This may help– [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George\_w\_bush#Religious\_beliefs\_and\_practices](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_w_bush#Religious_beliefs_and_practices) ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/7 "2006-04-10T19:14:50Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > Actually, I’m ashamed to admit that he’s nominally Episcopalian, or so I heard. Episcopalians as a whole consider the End Times to be nonsense. However, I’m not about to attempt to speak for Mr. Bush. > > CJ My understanding is that in DC, if he attends church at all, it is an Episcopalian church. But I had been under the impression that he considered himself Methodist. Okay, **Bosda** ’s link seems to confirm my memory. His family was Episcopalian, but he is a member of his wife’s Methodist church. Although (as an Epsicopalian) I would balk at referring to the End Times as “nonsense,” neither denomination is particularly preoccupied with the apocolypse. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/8 "2006-04-10T19:26:40Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Although (as an Epsicopalian) I would balk at referring to the End Times as “nonsense,” neither denomination is particularly preoccupied with the apocolypse. I guess it depends on how you define “end times.” If you just mean a general belief that there will be a Second Coming, a day of judgement and basically an “end” to things, you’re right that Episcopalians (like Catholics, Lutherans and Orthodox churches) would not call those things nonsense (although, as you say, they would advise people not to become preoccupied with it). What they _do_ call nonsense is any idea that you can use the Bible as a roadmap to determine exactly what will happen and when. By and large, they don’t believe that the specifics of the End Times can be sussed out from reading revelation, they put little or no stock in populist “Left Behind”/Hal Lindsey scenarios and they (correctly) deny that there is any Biblical basis Rapture beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/9 "2006-04-10T19:47:09Z")
Agreed, **Diogenes**. That’s pretty much what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/10 "2006-04-10T20:10:19Z")
He may not walk it, but he talks it, and you can feel free to dismiss it as political pandering. [Consider:](http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/06/03/far06005.html) > [@](#): > > A few years ago, a Time/CNN poll found that that more than a third of Americans search the news for signs of the Apocalypse…The Emerging Republican Majority author and former GOP Strategist Kevin Phillips bluntly states that “[T]he Religious Right and the would-be theocrats are the danger now,” telling Lou Dobbs that many Americans have literally stopped worrying about the economy “because they’re waiting for the Second Coming.” > > Phillips’ latest book American Theocracy was also the basis for a question posed to Mr. Bush in Cleveland this week when a reporter asked, “Do you believe this, that the war in Iraq and the rise of terrorism are signs of the apocalypse?” > > It took Bush five minutes to answer, when a simple “Yes or No” would have sufficed. Why? As Phillips points out, with 45% of Americans now believing that the Antichrist is already on earth, Bush risks alienating a large segment of the population, regardless how he answers. “He can’t answer the question weather or not he believes in Armageddon or it’s happening in the Middle East,” Phillips states. “He’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.” But thenhe might be the Antichrist himself: > [@](#): > > Rev. Rich Lang’s sermon “George Bush and the Rise of Christian Fascism,” is a perfect place to start. “You sit atop the nations like the Biblical Whore of Babylon openly fornicating with the military men of might,” Lang wrote in an open letter to the president, accusing the entire Bush White House of a “diabolical manipulation of Christian rhetoric” which is “the materialization of the spirit of Antichrist: a perversion of Christian faith and practice.” ---
**Author:** ![bigpappadiaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a698b9/32.png) [@bigpappadiaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bigpappadiaz)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/11 "2006-04-10T20:18:33Z")
He probably believes the end times are coming, anyways. His role in this apocalypse is to get all the blame for all of our problems that are going to start here real soon. He knows it, which is why he looks so old and gray. He’s not really looking forward to being hated by everyone around the world more than he already is. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/12 "2006-04-11T02:47:57Z")
Simple answer? No, he’s not, and the people worrying about this are paranoid loonies. Of course, I shouldn’t bother trying to reassure them on this point. It was so much fun watching leftists pee in their pants for 8 years, worrying about Reagan dropping the big one! This could be just as much fun to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/13 "2006-04-11T02:52:02Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/14 "2006-04-11T05:17:56Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Simple answer? No, he’s not, and the people worrying about this are paranoid loonies. I think the bigger concern is that the religious fundamentalists who _do_ believe in the End Times and want to bring about WWIII form a sizable part of his base, and they’re eager to cash in their chips. Sorta like how they deraild the Harriet Myers nomination because she wasn’t sufficiently rabid, but on an international scale. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/15 "2006-04-11T05:36:24Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Simple answer? No, he’s not, and the people worrying about this are paranoid loonies. I’ve never seen any evidence that Bush actually believes this stuff, nor that it affects the way he goes about being President. But hearing him avoid saying “no” to that apocalypse question was disquieting all the same. [Here’s a transcript of that speech and the Q&A.](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060320-7.html) I guess I should take comfort in the fact that he never gives straight answers, so perhaps that wasn’t unusual. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/16 "2006-04-11T13:11:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ve never seen any evidence that Bush actually believes this stuff, nor that it affects the way he goes about being President. But hearing him avoid saying “no” to that apocalypse question was disquieting all the same. [Here’s a transcript of that speech and the Q&A.](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060320-7.html) I guess I should take comfort in the fact that he never gives straight answers, so perhaps that wasn’t unusual. As Kevin Phillips pointed out, that answer took 5 minutes when a simple “No” should have sufficed, but we should take comfort that W answered\* it without referring even obliquely to Bible prophecy at any time. \*Actually he just hijacked the question into an opportunity to get back on message, saying the same things he had just finished saying, but considering the alternatives . . . ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/17 "2006-04-11T13:30:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ve never seen any evidence that Bush actually believes this stuff, nor that it affects the way he goes about being President. But hearing him avoid saying “no” to that apocalypse question was disquieting all the same. [Here’s a transcript of that speech and the Q&A.](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060320-7.html) I guess I should take comfort in the fact that he never gives straight answers, so perhaps that wasn’t unusual. There is no way in hell any President is going to directly say “no” and piss off eighty million fundamentalists. Bill Clinton would not have given a straight answer, either. Neither would Bush 1.0 or Reagan, who were two of the least religious Presidents in living memory. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/18 "2006-04-11T14:29:19Z")
Eighty _million_!? Really? I wonder if Jesus would laugh or cry if he saw what had been wrought… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/19 "2006-04-11T14:32:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There is no way in hell any President is going to directly say “no” and piss off eighty million fundamentalists. Bill Clinton would not have given a straight answer, either. Neither would Bush 1.0 or Reagan, who were two of the least religious Presidents in living memory. I wonder if Carter would have? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114/20 "2006-04-11T14:46:02Z")
Thanks for the link, **Marley23**. It appears to me that he answered the question with a fairly clear no immediately, then as **BrainGlutton** has noted, launched a mini-speech on a general topic that had nothing to do with the question. Which is pretty much what politicians do. Here are the first sentences of his answer, which I consider reasonably direct. > [@](#): > > The answer is – I haven’t really thought of it that way. (Laughter.) Here’s how I think of it. The first I’ve heard of that, by the way. I guess I’m more of a practical fellow. He’s saying he hasn’t thought of it that way, and he hasn’t talked to anyone who thinks of it that way. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-an-apocalyptic-christian-who-believes-the-end-times-are-coming-soon/352114.md?page=2)