# Is Bush stupid or malignant? I can't decide. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 2, 2006, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705 "2006-03-02T01:15:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/21 "2006-03-02T03:52:10Z")
**Biggirl** , I think the crux of the biscuit term might be Delusional, whose province lies smack dab on the hindquarters region of Stupid and Malignorant; so, the lack of compassionate foresight. ---
**Author:** ![Spacekat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@Spacekat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spacekat)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/22 "2006-03-02T04:24:29Z")
People, I tell you this: go back and look at the gubernatorial debates when he was running for election in Texas. His comments were sharp and to the point. None of this “aw shucks” demeanor. No deliberate misunderstandings or charming little self-effacing side-tracks. Far, far less drawl. Any appearance of harmlessness in his current guise is 100% orchestrated. Don’t buy it! If there were a STUPID equivalent of “crazy like a fox,” it would apply to this guy. Though this be idiocy, yet there is method in 't. Malignant all the way. Might I say that I recently left the military, and one of the great delights of my civilian life is that I can no longer be sent to jail for criticizing the Commander in Chief. Boy do I have great timing. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/23 "2006-03-02T04:32:45Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > And of course we know now that the levees did not overflow. The water punched thru (or whatever the technical term is) below the top. That’s even worse than simply overflowing. With an overflow, there is still enough structural integrity to hold most of the water. When there is a breach, the failure is far worse. It’s a complete failure, and the more water rushes out, the more structure it takes with it. I read the articles but didn’t watch the video yet. It’s late and I’m feeling lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/24 "2006-03-02T05:18:54Z")
> [@](#): > > **John Mace** What Bush said is technically correct, so what’s the big fucking deal. Did someone anticipate (ie, know) that the levees would be topped? Who knows. **John** , **Webster’s** first definition of _anticipate_ is “to give advance thought, discussion or treatment to.” Mayfield and Brown both expressed concern about the possibility of a problem with the levees in the video that I saw. So President Bush was dishonest once again when he said that no one anticipated that the levees might be breached. He definitely was not “technically correct.” And I am not “parsing these soundbytes.” A presidential conferences with advisors is not a soundbyte. I studied “parsing,” thank you, and I have every right to view and hear that tape and draw conclusions based on what was said during and afterwards. Surely you are not claiming that the tape was altered to make it appear that the possibility of a breach was introduced. New Orleans is unique. People who love her can no more image not having a New Oreleans that the Northeast can image no New York City or no Boston. What would California be without San Francisco? Too many cultures are _rooted_ in New Orleans. Some people feel about her the way that other do about Washington D.C. Does that help you to understand? _It is more than just another city._ And you can’t argue that out of our systems. Those feelings can be ignored at the peril of those foolish enough to make such a choice. The repercussion will be felt for a long, long time. Or the levees can be rebuilt eventually to be strong enough to withstand a Monster Hurricane. All it takes is a president realizing there is money to be made off of it. I have not been one to do a lot of piling on with Bush – except for one short semi-joke Bush bashing thread. Bush’s denial this time is as transparent as a eight year old who gets into an argument with a sibling and keeps saying “Did not.” I am sick to death of that sort of worrisome dishonesty that is usually left behind in middle school! ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/25 "2006-03-02T05:21:35Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > I actually feel like he’s a pretty ordinary person. But he has a fatal flaw: a complete lack of intellectual curiosity. He believes what he believes, and is not in the habit of doubting himself or whatever received ideas he’s taken on over the years. This kind of intellectual sclerosis is a terrible trait in a president, if you ask me. But, but…you could sit down and drink a _beer_ with him. Surely, that’s the be-all and end-all of qualifications for president! At least, that’s what I heard last election cycle… ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/26 "2006-03-02T05:32:45Z")
> [@Biffy the Elephant Shrew](#): > > Did they expect the Spanish Inquisition? _Noooobody_ expects the Spanish Inquistion! Our Chief Weapon is Surprise! Surprise and Fear! ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/27 "2006-03-02T05:33:43Z")
Here’s an idea. Let’s make “Bush is stupid and malignant” a sticky in every forum. Maybe then we could avoid such wankfests as this thread? Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/28 "2006-03-02T06:12:55Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > _Noooobody_ expects the Spanish Inquistion! Our Chief Weapon is Surprise! Surprise and Fear! You forgot about our fantical devotion to the pope, Heretic! Biggles, Fetch…THE RACK! ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/29 "2006-03-02T06:18:37Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Here’s an idea. Let’s make “Bush is stupid and malignant” a sticky in every forum. Maybe then we could avoid such wankfests as this thread? > > Just a thought. I’d be happy if you’d take to sporting one on your forehead. Just a thought. (Hmm…now, where _did_ I put that staple gun?) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/30 "2006-03-02T07:26:32Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **John** , **Webster’s** first definition of _anticipate_ is “to give advance thought, discussion or treatment to.” Mayfield and Brown both expressed concern about the possibility of a problem with the levees in the video that I saw. So President Bush was dishonest once again when he said that no one anticipated that the levees might be breached. He definitely was not “technically correct.” > > And I am not “parsing these soundbytes.” A presidential conferences with advisors is not a soundbyte. I studied “parsing,” thank you, and I have every right to view and hear that tape and draw conclusions based on what was said during and afterwards. Surely you are not claiming that the tape was altered to make it appear that the possibility of a breach was introduced. > > New Orleans is unique. People who love her can no more image not having a New Oreleans that the Northeast can image no New York City or no Boston. What would California be without San Francisco? Too many cultures are _rooted_ in New Orleans. Some people feel about her the way that other do about Washington D.C. Does that help you to understand? _It is more than just another city._ And you can’t argue that out of our systems. > > Those feelings can be ignored at the peril of those foolish enough to make such a choice. The repercussion will be felt for a long, long time. Or the levees can be rebuilt eventually to be strong enough to withstand a Monster Hurricane. All it takes is a president realizing there is money to be made off of it. > > I have not been one to do a lot of piling on with Bush – except for one short semi-joke Bush bashing thread. Bush’s denial this time is as transparent as a eight year old who gets into an argument with a sibling and keeps saying “Did not.” I am sick to death of that sort of worrisome dishonesty that is usually left behind in middle school! Look. We can sit hear an argue all night about dictionary definitions. So what? Bush made an off the cuff coment, and he probably didn’t know what he was talking about. Did Bush consider every possible dictionary definiton of the words he used, plus all the possible words someone might have said to him? Probably not. What exaclty do you want to conclude from this soundbyte that we weren’t able to conclude before? If Bush was giving testimony under oath, then maybe there would be some value in picking apart the semantics of his every utterance. So, go ahead and wage this semantic war if you want. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/31 "2006-03-02T07:30:16Z")
> [@Chertoff](#): > > Are there any DOD assets that might be available? Have we reached out to them?’ Oh, goody–somebody call **Cervaise**! His favorite bit of bureau-speak is in use! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/32 "2006-03-02T07:38:54Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > The most amazing thing about the clip is that Brownie actually looked like knew what he was talking about. I still think he’s a putz of major proportions, but it certainly has introduced into my mind that possibly he is just the scape goat. I think you’ve got that right. He had no business holding the job he had, but he was still scapegoated- plenty of other people fucked up royally without getting the treatment he (deservingly) received. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/33 "2006-03-02T08:00:07Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Look. We can sit hear an argue all night about dictionary definitions. So what? Bush made an off the cuff coment, and he probably didn’t know what he was talking about. Did Bush consider every possible dictionary definiton of the words he used, plus all the possible words someone might have said to him? Probably not. What he said wouldn’t matter if it weren’t for the fact that the actions of the White House matched them so well. Anyone near a levee anticipates a breach. (They’re worried as hell about the ones in Central California now.) But instead of saying that they should have had plans, Bush excuses himself, and says that they couldn’t have done better, by saying that no one could have anticpated the breach. Just like he said no one could have anticipated 9/11. Or the Iraq insurgency. Any leader worth anything needs to deal with worst case situations, not hope for the best. Not doing so is criminal negligence, in that it gets people killed - and Bush has certainly gotten a lot of people killed by the inaction of him and those who report to him. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/34 "2006-03-02T08:13:51Z")
Right … my problem does not lie in the fact that Bush doesn’t understand the levee system. My problem lies in that he doesn’t trust the people who DO understand them. A proper statesman would have said “Let me get with my engineers on this” rather than making comments off the cuff. And, by the way, the levee in the canal failed by circular slip-plane failure; Mohr’s circle to be more exact. Which can happen to any levee which is secured by sheet-piles or other vertical walls. ---
**Author:** ![Pope\_Bob\_The\_Pious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@Pope\_Bob\_The\_Pious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pope_Bob_The_Pious)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/35 "2006-03-02T10:12:22Z")
I am sort of curious: Why all this irrational finger-pointing at President Bush, while Ray ‘Make it Chocolate’ Nagin drops off the radar? It is Nagins city, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/36 "2006-03-02T11:09:09Z")
Oh, Nagin got Pitted over that comment when he made it. The thing is, what Ray Nagin does isn’t going to have any more than a minimal impact on me or my life. What Bush does will affect my life. I’ve said it before. I don’t think Bush is stupid, nor will I call him “malignant”. I do think he’s deliberately out of touch with ordinary people in this country, and I suspect he surrounds himself with people who only tell him what he wants to hear. CJ ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/37 "2006-03-02T11:27:32Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Look. We can sit hear an argue all night about dictionary definitions. So what? Bush made an off the cuff coment, and he probably didn’t know what he was talking about. Did Bush consider every possible dictionary definiton of the words he used, plus all the possible words someone might have said to him? Probably not. > > What exaclty do you want to conclude from this soundbyte that we weren’t able to conclude before? If Bush was giving testimony under oath, then maybe there would be some value in picking apart the semantics of his every utterance. So, go ahead and wage this semantic war if you want. Enjoy. **John** , you’re the one who picked this semantic fight. It doesn’t take a semantician to see that Bush was ducking responsibility by saying his people couldn’t have seen this disaster coming. It was what nonsemanticians call a lie. One can try to BS one’s way out of that with semantic arguments, but that’s the only role they have here. ---
**Author:** ![Pope\_Bob\_The\_Pious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@Pope\_Bob\_The\_Pious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pope_Bob_The_Pious)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/38 "2006-03-02T12:17:35Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > Oh, Nagin got Pitted over that comment when he made it. The thing is, what Ray Nagin does isn’t going to have any more than a minimal impact on me or my life. What Bush does will affect my life. > > I’ve said it before. I don’t think Bush is stupid, nor will I call him “malignant”. I do think he’s deliberately out of touch with ordinary people in this country, and I suspect he surrounds himself with people who only tell him what he wants to hear. > > CJ President Bush’s decision to appoint Brown to FEMA was spectacularly stupid, given Browns total lack of experience in the field, and he should be taken to task for it. But it’s not like New Orleans implemented their wonderful disaster plans, and it was only FEMA that was slow to the scene. New Orleans mayors were the ones who ignored the years and years (stretching back at least to our previous President) of warning about those levies, and what would happen if they broke. If you were the mayor of Gonnafloodsville, shouldn’t it be your highest priority to address that potentially city-destroying issue? The major of New Orleans should have been the one telling FEMA what specifically they would need in the event of a catastrophic flood, rather than waiting around until after things went to hell, then pouting on televison. Unless, of course, we begin Federalizing various aspects of city management. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/39 "2006-03-02T12:18:14Z")
I’ve been trying to figure this out since yesterday: does the media think we’re all retarded or that we all have long-term memory problems? It was **all over** the news the Saturday before the storm hit that they were worried about the levees not holding in a catogory five storm. Every news report that weekend expressed grave concern that NOL was going to be flooded. This wasn’t a surprise storm for anyone; the biggest surprise was that it was down-graded from a predicted cat-5 storm that they’d been anticipating before the storm hit. If the “common man” was hearing this every fucking time they turned on the news, why the hell would anyone think that Bush and Fema didn’t know? They knew, the assholes in charge in Louisana and New Orleans knew…and they all dropped the damn ball. That all concerned fucked up is not news, it’s a sad fact. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705/40 "2006-03-02T12:35:48Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > …and like to watch golf on television… Oi, what you got against golf? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-bush-stupid-or-malignant-i-cant-decide/346705.md?page=3)