# Is calling a black person an "Ape" a racist remark? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2013, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386 "2013-05-26T08:28:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/61 "2013-05-27T15:23:35Z")
Racial insult or not, it’s just plain rude. I’m glad the brat is being humiliated. I only wish the people she learned this behavior from could get similar treatment. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/62 "2013-05-27T15:26:09Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > What an incredibly disingenuous response to my post. I thought it was incredibly apropos. What’s disingenuous is pretending there isn’t a history of racism that makes certain words more insulting to a black person. _That’s_ disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/63 "2013-05-27T15:42:14Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Actually, kinda yes. Like if someone on the street gives you the finger for no reason, that’s bad, they’re a dick. If that someone is a thirteen year old kid? Yeah, as a matter of fact, that’s worse. How sad. I keep forgetting that there are adults out there who build imaginary hierarchies for themselves that arbitrarily place other human beings below them, and who then get upset when others don’t conform to their fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/64 "2013-05-27T15:46:39Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > So what was the intention was of the child who called the man an ape? > > Does the kid contend that she was using the term as an affectionate endearment as would be acceptable between friends of any hue? > [@monstro](#): > > Racial insult or not, it’s just plain rude. I’m glad the brat is being humiliated. I only wish the people she learned this behavior from could get similar treatment. Yeah, I’d have far more sympathy for someone who playfully called a friend “you big ape” without realizing this could be taken as a racist insult than I do for someone who shouts an insult at a stranger without realizing that the deliberately insulting term they chose could be taken as a _racist_ insult. If this girl didn’t want to cause offense then she could have easily avoided the whole situation by not shouting insults at strangers. While she may have been ignorant of the racist connotations of her particular choice of words, it shouldn’t have been difficult for even a teenager to predict that if you go around shouting insults at people then sooner or later someone is going to take offense. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/65 "2013-05-27T15:46:57Z")
It’s sad because we know _why_ adults do despicable things; they’re miserable and want everyone else to be also, they had a terrible \_\_\_\_\_\_ and can’t move past it, they are a sociopath or whatever. The list could be endless. But for children, we assume that they haven’t been totally screwed over by life yet and don’t have a reason (good or not) to behave that way. Sure, it’s probably been learned, but that makes it even sadder. ETA: In response to **Ruken**. ---
**Author:** ![TempestLegion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee7513/32.png) [@TempestLegion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TempestLegion)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/66 "2013-05-28T00:38:47Z")
> [@Krav\_Manga](#): > > Sure you have. Let me guess, you were called a white cunt. This is what I am talking about, you instantly assume I am white. Like many Australians I am a mix of different heritages. Also, your colourful choice of language oozes class. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/67 "2013-05-28T01:04:54Z")
> [@Krav\_Manga](#): > > Sure you have. Let me guess, you were called a white cunt. This is an insult and unacceptable. You have received an official warning for this remark. ---
**Author:** ![TempestLegion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee7513/32.png) [@TempestLegion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TempestLegion)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/68 "2013-05-28T01:05:40Z")
> [@stui\_magpie](#): > > FWIW, the reasons given why “Ape” is considered a racist insult to a black person but not a white person is because of the history of white europeans considering / treating blacks as less evolved, somewhat less than human, hence kept as slaves in the USA and Aboriginals only being given the vote in federal elections and included in the census in the late 1960’s. > > Calling a black person an “Ape” is supposed to be stating/implying that they are somewhat less evolved, less than human and it strikes back to historic treatment. > > Having heard the explanation today, I can get that but I still hadn’t joined those dots before. Yep, history is full of unsavoury occurrences. We can learn a lot from the past and use these lessons to move on. Although the word ape predates racist connotations, I recognise that certain terms are more offensive to individuals within certain cultures. Of course this should be respected. The point I am trying to make is that if we dwell on the past too long we stall the future. I hold hope that the word ape can one day be free of stigma. I like to think it is only a small minority that have racist views, though many of you out there will have a more cynical view. Also, I fear that thanks to all this publicity, individuals within the racist minority have just added another racist insult to there vocabulary. The flip side is that respectful people who were unaware of the implications of the word will refrain from using it in an inappropriate context. I think there are a lot of valid points in this forum and it is heartening that people generally seem to be sincere about eliminating racism. Also, the girl in question is genuinely sorry, I believe her that although intended to be an insult her use of the word was not intended to be racist. She has reconciled with Adam Goodes, who has accepted her apology. Also, Adam wants to move on, he has actually called for support for the girl in dealing with the aftermath of the incident. If he believes that she is not a lost cause then perhaps we should too. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/69 "2013-05-28T01:42:18Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Sorry, if I hear someone outside the US is a “football player” I tend to assume that means what we call soccer in the US. (I’m not sure I even knew there was such a thing as Australian rules football until now.) Still, I think that Wikipedia article is more than _vaguely_ relevant as I wasn’t so much curious about the behavior of soccer fans in particular as I was in whether terms like “monkey” and “ape” were commonly used as racist insults outside the US. It looks like they are. Very different games with very different audiences. Soccer attracts hooligans and AFL attracts families. At the game on Saturday night with about 95,000 in attendance 30% were adult females and probably 20% kids. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/70 "2013-05-28T01:47:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Man, it must be lovely to be in Oz, where “Ape” directed at a person of colour isn’t considered a racist comment by most, and you can even think of running around in [blackface](http://boardstest.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=535238) without a second thought. What an enlightened country it must be, free of any racist thoughts. > > Or maybe the tenet holds true - “If you have to ask if it’s racist, it probably is” The blackface incident was done in complete ignorance of how it is taken in the USA. It was done in innocence but still dumb. In Australia the comment and also the blackface incident were taken very seriously and these were both hit pretty hard in the media and amongst us common folk. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/71 "2013-05-28T08:07:23Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > The blackface incident was done in complete ignorance of how it is taken in the USA. It was done in innocence but still dumb. There were plenty of defenders of the ignorance (not the practice) in both threads, but I’m sorry, you’re wrong. It is dumb, but it’s not innocence, it’s just ignorance. To claim, in the 21st C., that you’re unaware of racist speech is just stupendously ignorant. Doubly so if you’re claiming it for a whole country. > [@](#): > > In Australia the comment and also the blackface incident were taken very seriously and these were both hit pretty hard in the media and amongst us common folk. I know, I was being sarcastic in my first comment - I don’t think Oz in general is that culturally blind. But that’s what some people are claiming when they say things like “Oh, I can see why an _American_ would be offended, but _we Aussies_ don’t have the historical basis for offence.” ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/72 "2013-05-28T08:22:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > There were plenty of defenders of the ignorance (not the practice) in both threads, but I’m sorry, you’re wrong. It is dumb, but it’s not innocence, it’s just ignorance. To claim, in the 21st C., that you’re unaware of racist speech is just stupendously ignorant. Doubly so if you’re claiming it for a whole country. > I know, I was being sarcastic in my first comment - I don’t think Oz in general is that culturally blind. But that’s what some people are claiming when they say things like “Oh, I can see why an _American_ would be offended,\*\* but _we Aussies_ don’t have the historical basis for offence.\*\*” But that is actually a fair point and strikes at the heart of the differences between the USA and Australia. People often make comparisons between Australian Aborigines and African Americans when the better comparions would be with the Native Americans. The ones who came to Australia by boat in chains and were caged and made to work were in the vast majority white British. My Great Great Grandfather was one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/73 "2013-05-28T08:31:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > To claim, in the 21st C., that you’re unaware of racist speech is just stupendously ignorant. Doubly so if you’re claiming it for a whole country. Whether one is aware of it is not the point. If something does not have a cultural connotation in one’s own culture, one is not being offensive if one does that thing within one’s own culture. The fact that some other culture takes what you did, slaps it untranslated into their own culture and decides you were being offensive is probably more about arrogance and cultural hegemony than anything > [@](#): > > I know, I was being sarcastic in my first comment - I don’t think Oz in general is that culturally blind. But that’s what some people are claiming when they say things like “Oh, I can see why an _American_ would be offended, but _we Aussies_ don’t have the historical basis for offence.” You’re not seeing the distinction between being culturally blind, and not feeling one has to refrain from doing something unoffensive in one’s own culture because it would be offensive in another culture. ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/74 "2013-05-28T08:50:17Z")
I am - dumbstruck by the Aussies in this thread not knowing the history of words like ape in relation to Kooris. You guys must have been brought up in lovely racism free enclaves to have missed that one. Be grateful. My family see no reason why they cannot call folks niggers, towelheads and gooks. My teenage rebellion was to decide never ever call anyone something nasty because of shit they have no control over. That in includes the term “ranga” by the way (folks with red hair esp our prime-minister) ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/75 "2013-05-28T09:59:39Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > This is an insult and unacceptable. You have received an official warning for this remark. What are you talking about? I didn’t insult anyone? ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/76 "2013-05-28T10:39:13Z")
> [@Krav\_Manga](#): > > What are you talking about? I didn’t insult anyone? yeah count me in on a WTF. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/77 "2013-05-28T12:17:13Z")
> [@stui\_magpie](#): > > But that is actually a fair point and strikes at the heart of the differences between the USA and Australia. Blackface is blackface no matter which privileged white people are doing it does it. > [@](#): > > People often make comparisons between Australian Aborigines and African Americans when the better comparions would be with the Native Americans. In general you’re right, but there are aspects of both situations that have bearing. > [@](#): > > The ones who came to Australia by boat in chains and were caged and made to work were in the vast majority white British. My Great Great Grandfather was one of them. They were never enslaved, comparing the deportees to African slaves is, quite frankly, insulting. > [@Princhester](#): > > Whether one is aware of it is not the point. If something does not have a cultural connotation in one’s own culture, one is not being offensive if one does that thing within one’s own culture.[…]You’re not seeing the distinction between being culturally blind, and not feeling one has to refrain from doing something unoffensive in one’s own culture because it would be offensive in another culture. Sorry, no. There’s _no_ culture where white people slapping on blackface isn’t _inherently_ offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/78 "2013-05-28T12:50:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Blackface is blackface no matter which privileged white people are doing it does it. Oh, get off your high horse. Two fifths of the performers were blacker than Michael Jackson is. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/79 "2013-05-28T12:57:22Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Oh, get off your high horse. Two fifths of the performers were blacker than Michael Jackson is. …you know: comments like this really aren’t helping. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/80 "2013-05-28T13:01:05Z")
Well, the spectacle of a white dude lecturing a bunch of ethnic minorities (Sri Lankan, Lebanese, Indian, Greek, and … well, maybe _one_ genuine privileged white dude at least) really chapped my butt at the time and, frankly, it still does. But yeah, we hashed all this out at the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386.md?page=5)