# Is calling a black person an "Ape" a racist remark? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2013, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386 "2013-05-26T08:28:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/81 "2013-05-28T13:04:38Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Well, the spectacle of a white dude lecturing a bunch of ethnic minorities (Sri Lankan, Lebanese, Indian, Greek, and … well, maybe _one_ genuine privileged white dude at least) really chapped my butt at the time and, frankly, it still does. But yeah, we hashed all this out at the time. …unfortunately I don’t know what the hell you are talking about. I remember the incident and probably participated in the threads. But what white dude are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/82 "2013-05-28T13:08:44Z")
Only one of the five performers was actually a “privileged white guy”. All the others were ethnic minorities of various sorts, and would definitely know all about racism from the pointy end. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/83 "2013-05-28T15:11:09Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …unfortunately I don’t know what the hell you are talking about. I remember the incident and probably participated in the threads. But what white dude are you talking about? Harry Connick Jr. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/84 "2013-05-28T15:12:33Z")
…and Lebanese and Greeks are White, last I checked. Not that that excuses the South Asians, either. And Michael Jackson is hardly the yardstick for blackness, so that’s a telling statement there. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/85 "2013-05-28T15:32:56Z")
> [@Krav\_Manga](#): > > What are you talking about? I didn’t insult anyone? I’ve changed this Warning to this Note: Please choose your words carefully when discussing insults so that you are not perceived to be insulting someone yourself. Also, **everyone** here needs to cool down a little BEFORE the insults start flying. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/86 "2013-05-28T15:48:22Z")
Actually, what’s racist (and idiotic) is thinking minorities can’t be racist against other races. What would prevent a South Asian from being racist against an African American? As I recall, there were 2 Aussie performances making fun of the Jacksons. The second one was the one with Harry Connick Jr. Then first one was a bunch of white guys who not only did the thing in blackface, but they affected stereotypically black “jive” speech (think the crows from Dumbo) that made it clear they were making fun of blacks moreso than the Jackson 5 (who in actuality sounded like a bunch of falsetto Hoosiers singing bubble gum R&B). I could be wrong about there being 2 different groups, though. I don’t buy the story that Aussies are a bunch of innocent blokes when it comes to racism. They have access to the same TV networks that everyone else on the dang planet has, and since they are hip enough to know who the Jackson 5 is, there is no reason to think they wouldn’t be hip enough to know the history of race relations in the U.S. Just like I would expect most Americans to know that indigenous Australians have been discriminated against and viewed as 2nd class citizens there. Who on the planet uses “ape” as a generalized insult, especially during a soccer game? Because this is a new one on me if it’s the case. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/87 "2013-05-28T17:47:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Actually, what’s racist (and idiotic) is thinking minorities can’t be racist against other races. What would prevent a South Asian from being racist against an African American? Nothing. Outgroups are often racist towards each other, I see it all the time here in South Africa - Blacks racist to Indians, Coloureds racist to Blacks, any combination you can think of. But there’s an extra layer of smug spite when it’s the members of an ingroup being racist towards an outgroup, because the power dynamic is so unbalanced. ---
**Author:** ![Jamie\_Gillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@Jamie\_Gillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamie_Gillis)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/88 "2013-05-28T17:57:33Z")
Anything black people don’t like, reflects negatively on them, or they don’t excel at is racist. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/89 "2013-05-28T18:14:43Z")
Well of course they don’t like being called pejoratives or mocked because of their race. Because that’s racist. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/90 "2013-05-28T18:54:21Z")
Don’t believe racism is anything more than hate. Hate based on superficial or false beliefs, either genetic and/or cultural, that one group of Homo Sapiens are inferior to their own is another pitiful form of justified hate called “racism”. All you need to figure out is if this is where the kid was coming from. If it wasn’t coming from racism, but an unfortunate choice of words due to ignorance of the history, etc. then an apology for the personal insult, and an understanding from both sides how it was apt to be misconstrued as racism should bring things to a less damaging resolve. On the other hand, “Ape?!”. Yeeeesh. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/91 "2013-05-28T19:49:57Z")
Comparing someone to an animal is racist? What’s wrong with being an ape? I don’t think it’s racist, just rude. What if someone looked a like an owl, is it racist to call them an owl? ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/92 "2013-05-28T20:15:32Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Comparing someone to an animal is racist? What’s wrong with being an ape? I don’t think it’s racist, just rude. What if someone looked a like an owl, is it racist to call them an owl? If that person belongs to a racial group with an intense history of being racially persecuted by other nations and groups that justified their misdeeds via dehumanizing comparisons of their victim race to a kind of vicious, stupid-looking bird known for their nasty sleep-all-day, murder-all-night method of operation? Then yes, that would indeed be racist. Does that help? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/93 "2013-05-28T20:45:44Z")
> [@colander](#): > > If that person belongs to a racial group with an intense history of being racially persecuted by other nations and groups that justified their misdeeds via dehumanizing comparisons of their victim race to a kind of vicious, stupid-looking bird known for their nasty sleep-all-day, murder-all-night method of operation? > > Then yes, that would indeed be racist. Does that help? It won’t help. You can’t help people who prefer ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/94 "2013-05-28T22:53:53Z")
They’re ostriches. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/95 "2013-05-29T01:00:39Z")
Actually, if all I had to go by was [this picture](http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2013/02/26/1226586/308392-adam-goodes.jpg) of Goodes, I never would have thought of him as black or aboriginal. Looks more Turkish/Middle Eastern to me… ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/96 "2013-05-29T01:32:06Z")
Add me to the list of people who are stunned by the lack of awareness of what constitutes a racial slur by many here. You have to ask if calling a black man an ape is a slur? Really? Even worse is the outright taunting of black football players in parts of Europe. If you threw a banana at a black athlete in an American sporting event, you’d be lucky if security got to you before the crowd (or the athlete) pummeled you to death. ---
**Author:** ![Gullible\_s\_Travels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@Gullible\_s\_Travels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gullible_s_Travels)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/97 "2013-05-29T03:37:25Z")
I’m surprised that an adult would question whether ‘ape’ is considered racist when yelled at an Aboriginal player at the footy. Sort of goes with comments like ‘just came down from the trees’ to me, but I can accept that the girl may not have realised it was racist. However, I was puzzled by Harry Connick Jr’s reaction to the Red Faces incident, and just as puzzled by the resulting international outrage. I saw it as people imitating the Jacksons for comedic effect and didn’t connect it with blackface that I vaguely knew was considered racist in the US. At the time, the only thing I knew about blackface was that (white) American performers used to paint their faces black and sing. I never thought about why it was done and certainly had no idea it was to ‘make fun’ of black people or encourage and exaggerate stereotypes and obviously I’d never actually seen a blackface performance. Context and history (or lack of) does make a difference I think. There is much to be ashamed of in Australian attitudes past and present, but I just don’t know if the ‘blackface’ incident is one of those things. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/98 "2013-05-29T03:53:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Sorry, no. There’s _no_ culture where white people slapping on blackface isn’t _inherently_ offensive. Exactly why. Feel free to engage in close reasoning. Spend some time focussing on “inherently”. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/99 "2013-05-29T06:19:41Z")
> [@Gullible\_s\_Travels](#): > > I’m surprised that an adult would question whether ‘ape’ is considered racist when yelled at an Aboriginal player at the footy. Sort of goes with comments like ‘just came down from the trees’ to me, but I can accept that the girl may not have realised it was racist. > > However, I was puzzled by Harry Connick Jr’s reaction to the Red Faces incident, and just as puzzled by the resulting international outrage. I saw it as people imitating the Jacksons for comedic effect and didn’t connect it with blackface that I vaguely knew was considered racist in the US. > > At the time, the only thing I knew about blackface was that (white) American performers used to paint their faces black and sing. I never thought about why it was done and certainly had no idea it was to ‘make fun’ of black people or encourage and exaggerate stereotypes and obviously I’d never actually seen a blackface performance. > > Context and history (or lack of) does make a difference I think. There is much to be ashamed of in Australian attitudes past and present, but I just don’t know if the ‘blackface’ incident is one of those things. I think the view on blackface is probably correct for most Australians, we as a country just didn’t participate in the blackface debate at all so we can be excused for not knowing that it was so offensive. The last time I remember seeing blackface was watching some movies from the 50s? when I was a kid. Now that Australians at large are aware of it’s meaning I doubt if you would ever see it again in any mainstream way. The reason for the uproar over the original incident (ape) is that as a country we are very aware and sensitive to overt racism, it will be pointed out pretty damn quick and you can’t even hide behind free speech laws. I say overt because there are still a large group of people in Australia like anywhere I suspect in the world who may think racist thoughts but are not given the public arena to express them. With any hope these idiots will give up and a more inclusive society will come about. Please do not paint Australians as racist if we do not understand your cultural norms. You may not know what is racist in Australia and rather than name calling we would inform you to pull ya head in next time, knowing you didn’t understand the context. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386/100 "2013-05-29T09:09:42Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Exactly why. Feel free to engage in close reasoning. Spend some time focussing on “inherently”. What needs explaining? Making fun of a racial group by exaggerating its physical characteristics is offensive in-and-of itself, there doesn’t need to be any other factors. That an entire culture could be blind to the offence doesn’t make it not offensive, it just makes them blind. Let me ask, is depicting Jews as exaggeratedly big-nosed, the way pre-WWII German propaganda did, or Japanese as buck-toothed and slant-eyed, the way WWII US propaganda did, also culturally dependent and only offensive \*if the people doing it \*considers it such? No. That’s a stupid argument. Yes, some things are offensive even if the offender is too blind, even culturally too blind, to realise it. Their very existence somewhere in human culture is offensive. Blackface is one of those things. The only non-offensive uses of it are in satire and appropriation by the targets - Spike Lee’s _Bamboozled_ is a good example. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-a-black-person-an-ape-a-racist-remark/659386.md?page=6)