# Is calling the state a cultural creation only right-wing rhetoric is it classical thought? or **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 4, 2023, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-the-state-a-cultural-creation-only-right-wing-rhetoric-is-it-classical-thought-or/977632 "2023-01-04T08:10:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-the-state-a-cultural-creation-only-right-wing-rhetoric-is-it-classical-thought-or/977632/1 "2023-01-04T08:10:42Z")
Is calling the state an act of cultural creation right - wing rhetoric or classical political thought ？ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-the-state-a-cultural-creation-only-right-wing-rhetoric-is-it-classical-thought-or/977632/2 "2023-01-04T08:33:16Z")
Who said it, and in what context? ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-the-state-a-cultural-creation-only-right-wing-rhetoric-is-it-classical-thought-or/977632/3 "2023-01-04T08:44:41Z")
Yeah, much more context required. In a sense, all social institutions are the products of human culture and are therefore “cultural creations”. States aren’t geological formations and they don’t grow on trees; they have to be conceived of and established by humans, and this is something we have to do collectively and not individually. You can also argue that a particular state is a cultural creation in the sense that it’s an outgrowth of a newly developed distinctive culture - e.g. settlers in North America who originally identified as British came over time to see themselves as Americans and in due course constructed a distinctive American identity characterised by, among other things, certain shared values, and part of this process was the emergence of the United States of America. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-the-state-a-cultural-creation-only-right-wing-rhetoric-is-it-classical-thought-or/977632/4 "2023-01-04T09:21:07Z")
Thanks UDS. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-the-state-a-cultural-creation-only-right-wing-rhetoric-is-it-classical-thought-or/977632/5 "2023-01-04T15:56:54Z")
There’s a saying “A nation is what constitutes itself as such”. What, in practical terms, “constitutes” actually means varies with the historical context, as does whether others accept and recognise it as such. But yes, cultural identity is a primary influence or point of contention in defining a nation and (though it’s not necessarily the same) a state: see, for example Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Palestine, and former Yugoslavia. A state that has no generally accepted (cultural) origin legend/myth/narrative is on shaky ground. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-the-state-a-cultural-creation-only-right-wing-rhetoric-is-it-classical-thought-or/977632/6 "2023-01-04T17:37:50Z")
> [@Octagon](#): > > right - wing rhetoric Are you saying the act of culturally creating a nation state is an act of right wing rhetoric? Or that calling it an act of cultural creation is right wing rhetoric? I wouldn’t say either was true, particularly the former. We might associate nationalism today with the right wing, but that wasn’t the case when that creation was happening\* in the enlightenment. For most of it’s history of the concept of a nation state, as in a people with a geographic boundary, culture, and government (as opposed to the land and people rules by a particular monarch) and nationalism was essentially a liberal concept, associated with other concepts like democracy, equality under the law, and civil rights. It only became associated with conservativism much later, during the late 19th and 20th century. - - I wouldn’t say it’s an entirely invented concept, I mean the idea of an English or French nation distinct from the people who happened to be ruled by the king of France or England existed before enlightenment thinkers wrote about it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-the-state-a-cultural-creation-only-right-wing-rhetoric-is-it-classical-thought-or/977632/7 "2023-01-04T17:53:41Z")
The OP has been asked for context and it’s sorely needed. The definitions, the time periods, the statement-makers, all need to be explicated before any sensible answer can be thought about. The notion of a “state” is perhaps the most complex socio-political concept of all. No yes/no answer is reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-the-state-a-cultural-creation-only-right-wing-rhetoric-is-it-classical-thought-or/977632/8 "2023-01-04T18:01:40Z")
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**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-calling-the-state-a-cultural-creation-only-right-wing-rhetoric-is-it-classical-thought-or/977632/9 "2023-01-04T18:02:28Z")
This OP does not meet any minimum standards for a thread. Next time provide far more context please.