Is cannabis actually healthy?

[Stoneburg]

@Broomstick

I have a couple of mild disagreements with some of your assertions/assumptions, and a few assertions/assumptions of my own.

Hey thanks for the reply! I just want to explain that they are not really my assertions or assumptions, but more like reflections and considerations. I’m afraid my poor english skills often means I come off as more assertive and abrasive than I intend.

@Broomstick

First, I think what we’re really talking about is occasional or very moderate use. Too much of anything will cause problems. If you stick to that level of use alcohol is arguably healthy as well, as low level use of beer and wine have some benefits provided you don’t do something stupid like drink sufficiently to become intoxicated then attempt to drive or perform other tasks with diminished reaction times and judgement could be a bad thing.

I agree completely and what you are saying makes perfect sense to me. My guess would be that although alcohol consumption can have some mitigating physical benefits, the overall effect on public health is probably very bad. And same goes for other social costs that violence, accidents and crimes related to alcohol. I guess you have to balance that against the joy, comfort or courage that it also brings to some people. Not to mention that in Sweden, we’d probably be extinct if it wasn’t for alcohol.

My question was whether cannabis consumption when it is all added together is beneficial to society or not. If the ONLY result of smoking it was that it protected your from obesity, I would consider it to be unequivoqally healthy and think we should encourage use. My impression after studying the issue for a while now is that cannabis only has a few negative impacts, and almost all of them are caused by prohibition. As far as I can tell, the follwoing are the ONLY permanent hazards when consuming cannabis:

• Young people (under 18) will basically become permanently dumber if they smoke a lot of pot (4 times a week or more). The IQ and cognitive development on the groups that consume a lot of cannabis at young age seems to be impaired when adjusted for other factors. So pot will make you dumber if you smoke it a lot when you are young. Adults on the other hand suffered no such hazards. But it would make sense to minimize the cannabis use of teenagers.

• Heavy users can over time suffer from “selective memory”. I’m not really sure what it means to be honest, my guess it is works as “rose tinted glasses” whe looking back on things. I’m not even sure this is a bad thing.

• Cannabis use may be a trigger for latent schizophrenia. So if you want to be careful I guess you should stay away from it if you have a family history of schizophrenia.

And that’s my first disagreement - pot DOES alter one’s judgement and reactions and thus I would say that mixing pot use with driving or other such activity is probably not a good idea, as it would increase the risk of accidents.

@Broomstick

Second, no doubt there are some people who have medical conditions that might be aggravated by pot use. Asthmatics, for example, probably should not be smoking anything (although alternate routes of administration may be fine). Really, I find the notion that inhaling smoke of any sort could be innocuous is bizarre, it might be better to say that pot smoke is less harmful than some other types of smoke

I too founs it bizarre that it would not be at least harmful to the lungs. The researcher wasn’t sure why that is, but said a likely theory is that the anti-inflammatory substances in marijuana counter-act the damage done by smoke. But as you say, even though smoking is the most common way of consumption it isn’t the only one.

@Broomstick

Third, although the effects on memory and learning are not large they actually are present. Thus, for marginal students, people with other sorts of memory impairment, and the like adding pot to the mix may not be a good idea.

Actually I think that if there were long term negative effects on the cognitive ability, that is a big deal, but that’s just my personal opinion. Basically if I knew it would cost me permanent IQ points, I wouldn’t smoke it, but I wouldn’t judge others for doing it. Since the results show clearly that students (well, students below 18) get worse results AND long term drawbacks if they consume a lot of pot, we should try to minimize that. I’m not sure which would be most effective, trying to get them to not smoke at all, or just try to get them to smoke less and explain why.

@Broomstick

And finally, I’ve noted that some people really do over use pot. Right now, I’m dealing with someone who, instead of dealing directly with problems in their life, is retreating into a haze of pot which comes under abuse in my book - the money spent on the drug is affecting her ability to meet her financial obligations in life, she’s not fixing what’s wrong, and everything is going to hell as she mellows out from dawn to bedtime. So while pot may be relatively harmless it is still possible to use it to help screw up your life. That’s not a problem inherent to pot, she could just as easily be drinking her problems away, or compulsively gambling, or whatever, but the point is that people can get into trouble using it beyond just the legal issues of a banned (in most places) drug.

My experience is that a lot of people use a lot of different crutches, and you have to evaluate and compare the options. Harm reduction is probably the best goal to have in that context.

@Broomstick

But yes, for the majority of healthy adults using pot is probably about as awful and drinking coffee or having wine with dinner.

But if that is true, does that mean we should allow commercials for cannabis the same way we do for caffeine and alcohol?

[Stoneburg]

@congoo

i would say over the population it will be a good outcome.the come down of it is about a million times better than alcohol.
and it is my theory that the law of it beening ilegal causes the psychosis.
what would happen if it wasnt ilegal is fear (not psychosis)and that is normal and would not lead to psychosis.fear also controls use to some extent.

To me it is obvious that a lot of, if not all, the down sides are because of the social context. When you’re doing something illegal, you will on average be more nervous, anxious and worried than you would otherwise be. This can’t possibly have a positive outcome on the effect of a psychoactive drug,

[Stoneburg]

@TriPolar

Define healthy. There are plenty of things that can either improve or degrade health depending on the circumstances.

I can’t.

[Stoneburg]

@Broomstick

Also - I don’t think hiding something from your parents causes schizophrenia, or any other mental illness. I’ve hidden lots of things from my parents, most of them not being their business anyway, and I’ve yet to go crazy from it.

I don’t think it causes schizophrenia either, but IANAD. It would however make sense to me to say that having to live in fear of social or judicial punishment probably has a negative impact on your quality of life, and possibly your health by extension.

[WillFarnaby]

@congoo

IF I Choose TO take cannabis and it gives me fear but i carry on anyway and get ill from this ,i shouldnt use NHS to help me. This way as long as i am not trying to hurt other people,IS my right and has nothing to do with goverment.

Oh i agree. I thought this thread was about whether or not it is healthy, not whether or not it should be legal. I’d say no to the former and yes to the latter.

[I_Love_Me_Vol.I]

Hey Dooodz… yeah… you guys with the whack posts full of misspellings, typos, accidental poetry and general loonytoony-ness…

It’s called the Straight Dope, but that doesn’t mean what you think it does.

[o_rion]

[Artsyfartsywannabcool]totally, dude[/]

Me experience-moderate use, havvat it, less harmful than alchohol, per e episode.

Badbad Smokin, even if not as bad as tobacco. Smoke in the lungs is smoke in the lungs, I’d hate me if I was one of my lung cells, no shit.

Obviously some important compounds I’m the plant, heavy use, in my case and other cases I see is not helpful for conducting an active, really useful life, but I don’t know how much it actually contributes to such negativity.

Think it’ll b legal soon anyway, big companies are workin on the genome for gmo and tagginvpurposes n soonzay got that all sewn up to where they get all the real money, including the superior food n fuel, it’ll get legal quick enough.

U just won’t get much of the benefit, as a regular citizen instead of a large multinational.

That better?

[HoneyBadgerDC]

I quit smoking pot years ago becaus eit gave me heart arithmia to the extreme, it would let up almost exactly 72 hours after my last smoke and start back up within 24 hours of smoking.
I recently started smoking again and have not experienced a problem yet, I just have problems getting things done if I smoke too early.

[Musicat]

@o_rion

[Artsyfartsywannabcool]totally, dude[/]

Me experience-moderate use, havvat it, less harmful than alchohol, per e episode.

Badbad Smokin, even if not as bad as tobacco. Smoke in the lungs is smoke in the lungs, I’d hate me if I was one of my lung cells, no shit.

Obviously some important compounds I’m the plant, heavy use, in my case and other cases I see is not helpful for conducting an active, really useful life, but I don’t know how much it actually contributes to such negativity.

Think it’ll b legal soon anyway, big companies are workin on the genome for gmo and tagginvpurposes n soonzay got that all sewn up to where they get all the real money, including the superior food n fuel, it’ll get legal quick enough.

U just won’t get much of the benefit, as a regular citizen instead of a large multinational.

That better?

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smokin’.

[o_rion]

I’ll have some bowls tonite, ya wanna stop over.

[o_rion]

Mannnn, dude, like, u n d00dr like, so missin out.

Way, dude.

Shits dope, man…

[o_rion]

Shtraight up dude, no shit d00d.
Fukkin dope…

So way…

[Keithvdw]

Cannabis, like any other drug that directly effects your brain, is able to penetrate the blood-brain barrier because it is chemically similar enough to natural brain chemicals. I believe the specific hormone associated with it is one related to sleep regulation and dreaming, which is why some symptoms of overuse and withdrawal bear some similarities to sleep deprivation (paranoia, etc.).

It is a myth that canabis is not addictive. It is like any other chemical that affects the brain - excessive use eventually causes the brain to cease production of the natural hormone/chemical that is being supplanted by the artifical chemical. Opiates bind to dopamine receptors, for example, so eventually your body stops producing sufficient natural quantities of dopamine and withdrawal can occur when you stop supplying the synthetic alternative and your brain starts to “starve” for the compound.

Canabis behaves very differently from alcohol, opium derivatives, and most other recreational drugs because almost all of them are water-based and bind to water in the body whereas canabis binds to fat. Everything about it behaves more slowly because of this, which is why pot use doesn’t generally lead to the dramatic highs or hangover crashes associated with alcohol, opiates, meth, etc. The downside is that it takes far, far, far longer for your body to clear the canaboids, which is why marijuana can be detected for weeks after you use it.

Like alcohol and other drugs, it’s certainly possible to use canabis at a level that doesn’t overrun your natural brain chemicals and doesn’t have negative health effects. It’s also possible to use so much pot that your brain no longer correctly produces the associated hormones/chemicals, leading to irritatibility, paranoia, tiredness, memory difficulties, etc. that are apparently alleviated by taking in more canabis. With water-based drugs like alcohol it tends to take 3-12 months of recovery from addiction before your brain starts producing the necessary balance of chemicals on its own again, which is why everybody feels awful for weeks when they try to quit drinking/smoking/whatever and then immediately feel better when they break down and use their drug of choice again. With canabis, it takes more like 6-18 months for your brain to recover. Excessive canabis use actively slows neural functions by breaking down the reactivity of individual neurons, much like spark plugs getting build up on them.

That’s just talking about the effects of canabis. Canabis is like any other drug, it can be helpful for some effects, there is a safe level of it that can be consumed without any lasting harm, and it has negative effects if taken in excess. As far as intoxication, the effects of canabis on reflexes and such are not nearly as dramatic as alcohol, but it certainly does begin to reduce reaction times and processing capability. The dude who just smoked a bowl is most likely a better choice for driver than the dude who just downed a bottle of wine, but they are both impaired and terrible choices for driver. Although they are both better than some kid on a cell phone.

As far as overall health, obviously smoking pot carries with it a wide variety of toxins that are terrible for you, just like tobacco. Given the fact that pot is seldom filtered, and it’s worse. The human body is not meant to take in smoke, any smoke. These secondary health effects can be avoided through medical grade pot pills, vaporization of medical grade pot, etc.

I apologize if I misremember a few of the specific terms and compounds from my class in drug effects/treatments, but all in all that’s my straight dope on dope. Is it a bigger health risk than tobacco and alcohol? No. Are there potential health risks and the possibility of addiction from abuse? Yes, just like all sorts of legal drugs.

[o_rion]

Hmmm…that joke must notta been as good as I thought…

Yer right tho, way good post.

I was mentally issued before I started Smokin, and when ive stopped . Weed seems to have both positive and negative effects regarding that. On the wholectho, shitty coping mechanism except occasionally.

Def addictive, and there is a lot of misinformation repeated repeatedly by rabid pot people.

[Stark_Raven_Mad]

@Keithvdw

It is a myth that canabis is not addictive.

True. The dependence syndrome is, however, (comparatively speaking) not well-studied, though insofar as we can tell it’s way less bad than tobacco, alcohol, or, obviously, crack and heroin. Not using those last two as strawmen - they’re simply the most effective yardsticks.

Cannabis dependence is also treated with CBT instead of medication, which tells us something about the degree of it that is psychological dependence. I’m not sure what, exactly, but something.

A guy from NIDA and a Professor of Medicine from UCSF also told Congress that it’s less addictive than caffeine. Take from that what you will.

I’m not saying cannabis is benign, mind you - there’s increasing evidence that, as some posters have mentioned before me, it triggers and/or worsens schizophrenia and other mental illnesses in those who have a predisposition.

@Keithvdw

Opiates bind to dopamine receptors, for example, so eventually your body stops producing sufficient natural quantities of dopamine and withdrawal can occur when you stop supplying the synthetic alternative and your brain starts to “starve” for the compound.

Opioids bind to opioid receptors. The short story is they inhibit something (GABA) which inhibits dopamine, which means that dopamine production goes into overdrive. Dopamine, insofar as we’re concerned here, is what’s responsible for pleasure in our brains. This is, roughly speaking, the beginnings of how addiction circuitry works. Pretty much all addiction (and this includes everything from drugs to gambling to World of Warcraft) works in this way.

@Keithvdw

Canabis behaves very differently from alcohol, opium derivatives, and most other recreational drugs because almost all of them are water-based and bind to water in the body whereas canabis binds to fat.

I figure THC appears to behave differently from anything else because other than a banned diet drug(it made people depressed and suicidal), it’s the only exo-cannabinoid most people are likely to have come into contact with (and I gather the diet drug didn’t feel remotely like being stoned - wrong type of receptor, I think). There are plenty of highly-fat-binding drugs around. The much bandied-about LSD earlier in the thread is one of them, as is heroin.

@Keithvdw

With water-based drugs like alcohol it tends to take 3-12 months of recovery from addiction before your brain starts producing the necessary balance of chemicals on its own again, which is why everybody feels awful for weeks when they try to quit drinking/smoking/whatever and then immediately feel better when they break down and use their drug of choice again. With canabis, it takes more like 6-18 months for your brain to recover. Excessive canabis use actively slows neural functions by breaking down the reactivity of individual neurons, much like spark plugs getting build up on them.

The damage done to the brain in long-term alcohol dependence is, to a great degree, physical. We’re talking about actual brain lesions and shrinkage we can see on a scan.

Anyway:
i) First of all, that homeostasis-based/chem model of drug addiction, while convenient, is a gross oversimplification. It’s missing the addiction circuitry and the role of neuroplasticity. With respect, I’m not certain it’s useful for understanding the subject on an ‘explaining it to some guy or gal at a bar’ level because that it precludes understanding cannabis addiction as a primarily psychological addiction.

ii) Where are you getting these numbers? :dubious: Particularly! - I’ve never seen figures like that cited anywhere for cannabis and ‘brain recovery’, especially since what (admittedly sparse) reading I’ve done on the subject has treated it as a psych issue rather than a neurological one.

@Keithvdw

As far as intoxication, the effects of canabis on reflexes and such are not nearly as dramatic as alcohol, but it certainly does begin to reduce reaction times and processing capability. The dude who just smoked a bowl is most likely a better choice for driver than the dude who just downed a bottle of wine, but they are both impaired and terrible choices for driver. Although they are both better than some kid on a cell phone.

Finally something we (more or less) agree on! A realy excellent study review from 2009 found that:

Alcohol impairs one’s driving more than cannabis does, but mixing them both is worst of all. With the fact that this forum is often indexed highly on Google searches in mind, do not drink/smoke pot and drive. At the very least you raise the chances that you’ll kill/main yourself and other people.

It does depend on how much you smoke or drink, though, and there are certain difficulties in studying the effects. The cognitive deficits of cannabis use seem to be partially negated by the fact that cannabis users tend to be rather aware of their impairments and become conservative drivers as a result, whereas drinkers just get reckless. It’s all in the study. Read it.

Anyway, I’ve really got to get started on Arrested Development. See you guys in…I don’t know, 10 hours? We’ll meet by the big yellow joint.

[o_rion]

Best discussion of the negatives of weed I’ve
seen, but more could b added.

Couple things I never see discussed, I’m fixinna discuss.

Do it in short posts tho, that seems to work better than wallopost.
Later Monday night, should be ok. Gonna number em
just because.

Weed uniquely got the title gateway drug. Not
even alchohol, sugar, or tobacco got that. Yih,
sugars a serious and seriously abused drug,
silly as that might seem. Susan Powter, bleeve
it r not, wrote a pretty good book on it, but anyway,

One n only gateway drug, n we’re fixinna wander
here. Goin someplace though, although it might
not b tonight. Pretty tired.

[o_rion]

U hear much ever about railroad scions? Me either,
butchoo know railroad barons was some of the richest
motherfuckers around for a while.

Doubt the scions r even in railroading anymore, how
many fuckin railroads we got crisscrossing this country?

U even know any fuckin railroad scions? Use the railroad
much?

Cuz the deal is, way they got rich, or part n parcel
to n of the process, was some gov guys give em
half the fuckin country to lay track on. Their govt
buddies. Give em big ol chunks the country.

Public property. Just give it to the rr companies and
I bet without even breakin a sweat u can think of more
appropriately public-minded ways to handle public
resources.

[o_rion]

Public property, commons. Like spectrum, the electromagnetic
spectrum, always been coomons, public resource.

Till the fucks in gov started sellin it off to their buds in private industry, cable,
cel phone outfits n the like.

Like they own the electromagnetic spectrum.

Well they do. Got it in collusion with crooks masquerading as gov officials.

Takin public resources private. Know why?

Cuz stupidass motherfuckin bullshit u,

And stupidass motherfuckin bullshit me,

was all fuckin stupid and bovine enough to let it happen, and continue
to happen.

This bodes well for exactly nothing.

Not done, but tired. Later.

[o_rion]

There’s a point to this…

Shit, that was one, two n three. Thissun yar b four.

[scabpicker]

I’d just like to mention that I keep misreading this thread title as:

Is cannibalism actually healthy?

And I think for a moment “Oh, good lord, no.”

Then I realize my mistake.