# Is "Captain Sulu" gay in any Star Trek novels? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 26, 2010, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493 "2010-01-26T08:15:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/21 "2010-01-26T19:17:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Capt. Kirk screwed anything that moved and didn’t stain the sofa. 😉 > > With inter-species mating, I don’t think gender mattered very much. 🆒 Please…Captain Jack on Torchwood has Kirk beat six ways to Sunday on the “anything that moves” front. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/22 "2010-01-26T19:44:14Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Please…Captain Jack on Torchwood has Kirk beat six ways to Sunday on the “anything that moves” front. Yeah! He’s like one of my exes, trisexual. If it’s sexual, try it. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/23 "2010-01-26T21:02:31Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Please…Captain Jack on Torchwood has Kirk beat six ways to Sunday on the “anything that moves” front. Hell, for [Captain John Hart](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/John_Hart), it doesn’t even have to be moving. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/24 "2010-01-26T23:25:45Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Having offspring is no indication of one’s sexual orientation. That being said there is nothing in canon to suggest Sulu was gay (I think some of the novels and on of the fan series outs him). That’s why I brought the Animated Series episode with the devil and magic where he created a female companion up. Horrible episode, but that’s pretty much all we have on him even vaguely on screen. Sulu gay? Oh, no no no no. ---
**Author:** ![Anduinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Anduinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduinel)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/25 "2010-01-26T23:46:22Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Generally I’ve noticed that Rick Berman has become the designated villain of Star Trek, whether he was actually responsible for the decision or not. Berman has something of a reputation for trying to keep homosexuality out of Star Trek. Andy Mangels had quite a bit to say on the subject at SDCC’s Prism panel a few years back, mostly about having to actually sneak LGBT characters into the novels on Berman’s watch. Berman also stated that Lt. Hawk was definitely heterosexual. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/26 "2010-01-27T00:27:14Z")
Well, Mangels clearly blames the lack of gays on Star Trek on Berman, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/27 "2010-01-27T06:16:28Z")
Oh, also, “The Offspring” was before Roddenbury died. I think Berman’s attitude was that homosexuality was just too controversial a subject to address directly, and that en episode like “The Outcast” was supportive of homosexuality without actually bringing it up and upsetting people. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/28 "2010-01-27T08:06:16Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > That’s why I brought the Animated Series episode with the devil and magic where he created a female companion up. Horrible episode, but that’s pretty much all we have on him even vaguely on screen. > > Sulu gay? Oh, no no no no. According to [Word of God](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod), The Animated Series is not canonical. But, then again, neither are the books. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/29 "2010-01-27T08:49:55Z")
Did they ever deal with Scotty’s massive weight gain in the novels? You’d think that by the 23rd (or whatever) century they’d have that under control. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/30 "2010-01-27T10:56:39Z")
Which is why I mentioned it being depreciated, BigT. However, parts of the Animated Series are canonical. Yesteryear’s pretty much entire contents, the depiction of Vulcan et al, James Tiberius Kirk showed up in VI, Amanda Greyson’s last name, various planets, the holodeck, Caitians show in IV, and, of course, Robert April’s first command of the Enterprise. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/31 "2010-01-27T15:07:02Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > The “any gay characters in Star Trek” thing was an issue for a long time. Roddenberry had apparently planned to add at least background extras in same-sex pairings but died before anything in that vein could be done. The producers of NextGen had a weaksauce episode about a member of an officially androgynous species developing feelings for Riker and starting to become definitely feminine, which led to him/her being institutionalized by his/her people to “correct” it. (“The Outcast”) See, I thought that episode was great because it DIDN’T wipe your face in it, it just set up a situation where a good person was forced to hide their true selves, and made undergo unwanted medical treatment to change the part of them that society didn’t like. I thought it was actually more effective. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/32 "2010-01-27T16:10:23Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > See, I thought that episode was great because it DIDN’T wipe your face in it, it just set up a situation where a good person was forced to hide their true selves, and made undergo unwanted medical treatment to change the part of them that society didn’t like. I was a teenager when that episode came out and even at the time I thought they did “wipe your face” in the whole gay thing. It was about as subtle as a bag of hammers being dropped on someone’s head. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/33 "2010-01-27T17:00:50Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I was a teenager when that episode came out and even at the time I thought they did “wipe your face” in the whole gay thing. It was about as subtle as a bag of hammers being dropped on someone’s head. This was the problem. Not only did it try to redirect the issue onto some other, non-real-world therefore non-controversial metaphor, it was “afterschool special” quality. This wasn’t even what the fans who wanted gays in Star Trek were talking about. We were complaining about not seeing gay-as-everyday-thing in this future where human racial and gender discriminations were apparently non-existent. That could have been handled by simply having background extras of the same sex seen having quiet dinners together in 10-Forward or holding hands in the solarium or nameless male lieutenant mentioning in casual conversation that it’s his and John’s anniversary tonight so don’t put me on-call. Instead we got this pot o’ message that wasn’t even a direct metaphor! It was really a terribly disappointing episode. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/34 "2010-01-27T17:47:54Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Instead we got this pot o’ message that wasn’t even a direct metaphor! It was really a terribly disappointing episode. It was an attempt to make everybody happy that made nobody happy. It was so they could say to the gay fans, “There, we made a gay episode, now leave us alone.”, while at the same time saying to the antigay “family decency” groups and skittish sponsors, “No, you see, these are aliens. It’s not offensive at all. Please don’t boycott Paramount/pull your ads.” That second was a real fear, and in fact, not too long after, Proctor and Gamble, which was the major advertiser for Deep Space 9, pulled all their ads from a DS9 episode that showed two women kissing. Unfortunately, like most attempts to make everybody happy, it didn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/35 "2010-01-28T00:10:47Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Akira Sulu Who? Memory Alpha has no Akira Sulu article, and the Demora article mentions no children. I also tried googling, and this thread is on the first page of the results. > [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Which is why I mentioned it being depreciated, BigT. However, parts of the Animated Series are canonical. Yesteryear’s pretty much entire contents, the depiction of Vulcan et al, James Tiberius Kirk showed up in VI, Amanda Greyson’s last name, various planets, the holodeck, Caitians show in IV, and, of course, Robert April’s first command of the Enterprise. Robert April’s still not really canon, and we don’t know that those were Caitians, as they were just background characters that were never addressed or ever seen again. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/36 "2010-01-28T00:51:36Z")
Akira Sulu is Admiral Quinn’s aide de camp, of course. (Star Trek Online.) The quote ‘Where’s Sulu?’ is now going to echo the world with ‘Where’s Mankirk’s Wife’ and ‘Where are the Lost in King’s Row?’ Anyhow, so, there we go. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/37 "2010-01-28T00:54:47Z")
Reading over that on wiki (I’d never even heard of it before), I see the Romulans have been shafted again. I hate Klingons. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/38 "2010-01-28T23:01:18Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I was a teenager when that episode came out and even at the time I thought they did “wipe your face” in the whole gay thing. It was about as subtle as a bag of hammers being dropped on someone’s head. Johnathan Frakes would have been happy to have played Riker falling for a male alien IIRC in that episode and thought the Trek approach was all about the raging lesbians of outer space or some such thing. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/39 "2010-01-28T23:06:32Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > There is one called “ **Blood and Fire** ” that has a male gay character (Kirk’s nephew), and some male on male kissing. > . Wow, who knew the Salvation Army supported gays? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493/40 "2010-01-28T23:18:20Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Having offspring is no indication of one’s sexual orientation. Actually, it is an indicator. Straight males have biological children at a much higher rate than gay males — roughly four times more often. It’s not a _conclusive_ indicator, but it _is_ an indicator. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-captain-sulu-gay-in-any-star-trek-novels/526493.md?page=1)