# Is carrying an exposed gun to everyday shopping & social events OK manners wise? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 8, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275 "2008-06-08T23:03:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/121 "2008-06-09T20:54:16Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] Aren’t private businesses allowed to ban weapons from their property even if the customer is legally allowed to carry them? [/QUOTE] I think this is absolutely clear for private homes, but most businesses are public accommodations and as such have to watch the law a bit more closely. For instance, whatever his feelings about guns, I don’t think a landlord here in Virginia has the right to make his tenants not keep any in their apartments, so long as they can legally keep them. Also, businesses may ban guns from their premises, but many states are carving out an exception for the cars in the parking lot. The thinking was that it is fine that the factory floor be gun free, but making sure Joe Sixpack couldn’t go target shooting after work was going too far. That seems like a reasonable accommodation to me, as I’m pretty pro-property rights as well. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/122 "2008-06-09T21:22:41Z")
I don’t know why people just have this black and white view where “cop with gun = ok,” “civilian with gun = bad.” If you were in a coffee shop and a robbery occurred or some psycho pulled out a weapon, which of the following two customers would you rather be in that coffee shop with you: 1. A cop who’s a rookie, scored just high enough on the tests to get accepted, is clumsy, and rarely practices with his sidearm. 2. A civilian with a licensed concealed handgun who practices with his pistol at the firing range twice a week. It’s not like a police badge immediately confers upon the wearer some kind of magical powers that make him more dependable or more trustworthy than an average law-abiding, good citizen with a concealed carry permit. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/123 "2008-06-09T21:22:59Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Is Bricker the same person as rickerlobby from [packing.org](http://packing.org)? [/QUOTE] No. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/124 "2008-06-09T21:25:38Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] What’s childish about that? You guys are the ones who say you carry them for self-defense. That implies fear. I have no problem walking into a 7-11 completely unarmed. Therefore , its ridiculous to claim that I am the fearful one. [/QUOTE] I notice you have completely forgotten the justification I provided. The one where you told me to suck it up and drive home hungry. I never said a thing about self-defense. That’s not a very honest way to argue, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/125 "2008-06-09T21:27:24Z")
I also love how so many left-wingers (and I am not referring to any specific poster here, but just people who I’ve known or talked to) will _relentlessly_ bash the police, call them racists and thugs, and talk about our “fascist” government and military, but then if you bring up the subject of the right to bear arms, whoooaaa daddy, all of a sudden, they become the most pro-police and pro-government people on earth, saying “well, it’s the job of the police and the military to have guns - regular people don’t need to have them.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/126 "2008-06-09T21:30:20Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Self-defense is lame excuse. What do you think you’re going to have to defend yourself against at a Starbucks or a restaurant? [/QUOTE] Ever hear of [Luby’s Cafeteria](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hennard)? > [@](#): > > Hupp had actually brought a handgun to the Luby’s Cafeteria that day, but had left it in her vehicle due to the laws in force at the time, forbidding citizens from carrying firearms… (Hupp later expressed regret for abiding by the law in question by leaving her firearm in her car, rather than keeping it on her person.) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/127 "2008-06-09T21:43:21Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] I don’t know why people just have this black and white view where “cop with gun = ok,” “civilian with gun = bad.” If you were in a coffee shop and a robbery occurred or some psycho pulled out a weapon, which of the following two customers would you rather be in that coffee shop with you: 1. A cop who’s a rookie, scored just high enough on the tests to get accepted, is clumsy, and rarely practices with his sidearm. 2. A civilian with a licensed concealed handgun who practices with his pistol at the firing range twice a week. It’s not like a police badge immediately confers upon the wearer some kind of magical powers that make him more dependable or more trustworthy than an average law-abiding, good citizen with a concealed carry permit. [/QUOTE] The cop. Hands down. I don’t want some Joe Hero blasting away like an asshole. And the cop wouldn’t _be_ a cop if he was clumsy with a handgun. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/128 "2008-06-09T21:46:49Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] Ever hear of [Luby’s Cafeteria](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hennard)? [/QUOTE] So what? People get struck by lightning too. That doesn’t mean it’s anything to seriously worry about. Plus, I am dubious that armed civilians would be able to stop something like this anyway. More bullets flying is not a salve for the situation. Amateurs need to stay out of firefights. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/129 "2008-06-09T21:53:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] And the cop wouldn’t _be_ a cop if he was clumsy with a handgun. [/QUOTE] [You’d](http://www.ktvu.com/news/5441146/detail.html) [be](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4099751.ece) [surprised](http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080514/NEWS/805140331/1001/news). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/130 "2008-06-09T21:55:46Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] So what? People get struck by lightning too. That doesn’t mean it’s anything to seriously worry about. Plus, I am dubious that armed civilians would be able to stop something like this anyway. More bullets flying is not a salve for the situation. Amateurs need to stay out of firefights. [/QUOTE] You said: **‘Self-defense is lame excuse. What do you think you’re going to have to defend yourself against at a Starbucks or a restaurant?’** I gave you an example of something one would have to defend one’s self against in a restaurant. If you don’t like the answer you shouldn’t have asked the question. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/131 "2008-06-09T21:59:42Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] So what? People get struck by lightning too. That doesn’t mean it’s anything to seriously worry about. Plus, I am dubious that armed civilians would be able to stop something like this anyway. More bullets flying is not a salve for the situation. Amateurs need to stay out of firefights. [/QUOTE] Especially [70-year-old amateurs?](http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008806050530) > [@](#): > > Two teens who were fatally wounded Tuesday night were apparently breaking into a house when the owner shot them, according to Louisville Metro Police. > . > . > . > The teens were shot shortly after 5 p.m. when they broke into the house, police said. One of the teens had a weapon. > > During a fight inside the house, owner Billy Jackson shot both teens, apparently in self-defense, said Officer Phil Russell, a department spokesman. > . > . > . > In an interview, Jackson said last night that he and his wife were cleaning an apartment in the house that had recently been vacated when the teens forced their way inside. > . > . > . > “They had the weapon two feet from my head – I thought I was dead,” he said. > > He said he fired because he wanted to protect his wife, who was in the kitchen at the time. > > “It changed the rest of my life,” Jackson said. “I’m so sorry for the people I hurt. I know they were someone’s sons. I raised children. But I had no choice. I thought I was dead and my wife was dead.” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/132 "2008-06-09T22:02:45Z")
[QUOTE=Burton] Is it a reasonable assumption that people carry guns either concealed or open for reasons of self defense? If so, if carrying it not concealed gives a good warning that the person with a visible gun is not a good choice of victim. I understand that most gun owners do not think this is a good idea but it does seem to send a clear don’t fuck with me message. [/QUOTE] In other words, they are bullies. They are sending the message, “Don’t argue with me or I just might kill you.” As for criminals, don’t be silly; carrying a gun like that makes you a great target. For one thing, once they kill you they have two guns. And second, it makes it easy to get away with murdering you; just put your own gun in your hand with something that won’t leave fingerprints, and it was self defense. And no, you won’t be able to defend yourself; contrary to what people who watch too many old Westerns like to think, no one is fast enough to beat the draw of someone who starts drawing first. The criminal will always have the overwhelming advantage because he’ll open hostilities. You’ll be luck in your hand reaches the gun before you’re dead. That’s why the police are so careful about anyone whom they think has any chance of being armed and hostile; they know better than to think they are going to win some sort of quick draw contest, unless they’ve already drawn the gun. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/133 "2008-06-09T22:05:28Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] You said: **‘Self-defense is lame excuse. What do you think you’re going to have to defend yourself against at a Starbucks or a restaurant?’** I gave you an example of something one would have to defend one’s self against in a restaurant. If you don’t like the answer you shouldn’t have asked the question. [/QUOTE] Yes, but the odds are still statistically negligible. Like I said, people getr struck by lightning too, but that doesn’t make it rational to walk around with a lightning rod. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/134 "2008-06-09T22:06:31Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Especially [70-year-old amateurs?](http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008806050530) [/QUOTE] This was a home invasion. How is it applicable to the discussion of _public_ gun toting? ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/135 "2008-06-09T22:07:08Z")
Dio, I like how you leave all logical methods of debate behind when you embark upon one of your posts. First you make a sweeping generalization, then an inappropriate instantiation, and then you take your unsupported assumption as the gospel truth and use it to back up every one of your points that follows. Add to that your hysterical ad hominems and you have quite a formidable arsenal. What a brilliant debating strategy. Really. You’re almost as good as Gee Dubya. :dubious: > [@](#): > > How do I know it’s peacable? Flasing a piece is an aggressive act, especially in a place where you would never have a reason to fire one. “Flashing a piece” is very different from “carrying openly.” The first is an aggressive act, the second is not. > [@](#): > > What’s childish about that? You guys are the ones who say you carry them for self-defense. That implies fear. I have no problem walking into a 7-11 completely unarmed. Therefore , its ridiculous to claim that I am the fearful one. Hmm? And I just said that I don’t have any problem walking into a 7-11 unarmed either. What was that about fear again? It’s about taking small steps to be prepared for improbable disaster. Obviously your feelings about firearms make it seem extraordinary to you, but it seems like a simple act of preparedness to me. I think I can understand your position: if I were afraid of firearms, or if I thought they were evil or wrong somehow, or if I were extremely unfamiliar with them, it would indeed take some level of fear (perhaps a direct personal threat) for me to obtain one and carry one. But I’m a regular shooter, and the safe handling and operation of firearms is second nature to me - packing a gun is like packing a pocketknife. Granted, carrying a gun is a much greater responsibility than carrying a knife, but accepting that responsibility is not an issue for me because I’m trained and willing to handle it. I guess my point is that when you’re talking about “fear,” it’s all about how you emotionally evaluate the object in question. Would you accuse a woman who carries pepper spray or a taser of being paranoid? How about a family with a fire extinguisher in their house? How do you feel about the responsibility involved in driving a car? > [@](#): > > No, I’m addressing a repeated accusation of “fearfulness” by people who are afraid to go outside without a gun. The seatbelt accusation is nonsense because that’s a safety issue. Carrying a gun is not. Begging the question. Here again is your assumption that there’s no legitimate reason for a citizen to carry a gun. If you’re going to use that to underpin your debate points (if I am not taking excessive liberty in calling them that), you’d better defend it with something more than emotional arguments and ad hominem attacks. > [@](#): > > Then I have more guts than you because there is NO place I wouldn’t go unarmed.,m and I have walked routinely through some of the most dangerous inner city neighborhoods in the US (and I’m not talking about Minneapolis) as well as in near-lawless third world countries. Really? Well, good for you, assuming you’re not exaggerating your personal daring even the slightest bit. But I would call that “recklessness,” not “guts.” I don’t think you’ll find any reasonable person who will accuse someone of lacking courage for saying there are some places they won’t walk at night, armed or not. Lacking stupidity, maybe. > [@](#): > > I think the point you’re missing here is that I’m objecting to the accusation that **I** am somehow “fearful” if I _don’t_ carry a gun. There is nowhere you won’t go without a gun that I won’t go unarmed, so how does it make sense to call ME “fearful?” Who is accusing you of being fearful because you don’t carry a gun? That’s just silly, and unless I’ve missed something entirely, I haven’t seen anyone make that claim against you in this thread. If you would care to point out where somebody made that specific argument, I would definitely take your side on this point. > [@](#): > > First off, I’m not afraid of any of them. The question was do we think it’s RUDE, not whether we’re afraid of them. Secondly, a person with a uniform has a reason to carry a gun and isn’t trying to be hostile or intimidating or laboring under the delusion that he’s impressing anybody. Not good enough. I’ve already explained to you how a person can carry openly for legitimate reasons without intent to intimidate or impress anyone. You’re the one who keeps ignoring these arguments and choosing to perpetuate your faulty assumptions. And why does a person with a uniform have a “reason” to carry a gun, if anybody else does not? You seem to be implying that it’s okay for cops to carry guns to enforce the law, and it’s okay for armored car drivers to carry guns to protect their clients’ money, and it’s okay for bodyguards to carry guns to protect politicians and celebrities, but it’s **not** okay for the average citizen to carry a gun to protect his life. Elitist much? And for that matter, why would such uniformed persons carry openly, except to impress and intimidate with their authority? > [@](#): > > Those are the questions you should be asking yourself if you see somebody displaying a firearm in an inapprpriate setting. Begging the question again. Show me an inappropriate setting. > [@](#): > > The answer to your question is I _don’t_ know, but there is a difference beween not knowing anything about a random stranger and not knowing anything except that he has the immediate ability to kill my children. You know, every person behind the wheel of a car in the vicinity of your children has the immediate ability to kill them, and in fact they’re a damn sight more likely to do so. Do you think it’s rude to brandish a car at your children? > [@](#): > > And you think it’s plausible you’re going to get thrown down on at a Starbucks? I’m not the one nurturing the Bernard Goetz fantasy. Don’t talk to me about “plausible.” I’m not nurturing any fantasies. I don’t think I’m at all likely to be attacked in a Starbucks, but I know that anything’s possible, especially during the walk home. Hell, I’ve had people try to rob me before, while I was walking through even fairly good parts of town at night. Don’t try to tell me that a person has no reason to think they might one day need to defend themselves. As for Bernard Goetz; he was a complete lunatic who even admitted that he just wanted to “murder” the four guys who were trying to shake him down for five bucks. Even by his own words what he did went so far beyond legitimate self-defense it’s simply shocking. I don’t know why you’d bring him up in the debate; it certainly doesn’t help your position any. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The cop. Hands down. I don’t want some Joe Hero blasting away like an asshole. [/quote] I wouldn’t want that either. Fortunately there’s never been any indication or evidence that citizens carrying firearms have any tendency to do this in self-defense situations. And let me tell you, if given the choice of a brief firefight between an armed citizen and the prospective mass murderer, with all its possible risk of collateral damage, or said murderer being able to calmly slaughter everybody in the joint, I’d pick Joe Hero and his asshole blaster every time. I don’t really like the odds on “psychopath does everybody in the restaurant execution-style.” > [@](#): > > And the cop wouldn’t _be_ a cop if he was clumsy with a handgun. No, really, pull the other one; it’s got bells on. :dubious: I’ve seen firsthand that being a cop is no guarantee of **any** level of competence with a handgun. Many of them are dedicated professionals, certainly, but there are quite a few who are so clumsy or irresponsible that it’s alarming just to be around them. It’s a common saying at gun ranges: “stay the hell away from the range on police qual day.” Heck, do you remember that DEA agent who managed to shoot himself in the leg in a classroom full of children, moments after saying that he was “the only one in the room professional enough” to handle a gun? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/136 "2008-06-09T22:10:08Z")
[QUOTE=Burton] Or. he might just have shot you first. [/QUOTE] Sure, possible. But I was in grave danger of being shot merely by being in the restaurant when he came in. How would the situation have been WORSE if I had been armed? ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/137 "2008-06-09T22:16:38Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This was a home invasion. How is it applicable to the discussion of _public_ gun toting? [/QUOTE] **Dio** , you jump from topic to topic and mode to mode whenever it suits you, don’t you? You said “amateurs should stay out of firefights,” and Bricker gave you an example of a 70-year old “amateur” engaging in an armed confrontation and winning. You’re just trying to pull the topic back to public carry (off of which you helped derail it in the first place) because you don’t like it when people give good answers to your rhetorical points. **Bricker** was right when he observed your apparent inability to debate honestly. So far you’ve done little besides fling emotional arguments and ad hominem attacks, distort the words of other posters, make gratuitous use of logical fallacies, and generally spit upon the very concept of rational debate. _Sigh_ I don’t know why I waste my time. This isn’t even worth a pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/138 "2008-06-09T22:19:29Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] And the cop wouldn’t _be_ a cop if he was clumsy with a handgun. [/QUOTE] This has been making the rounds for a long time but in case you haven’t seen it: [Idiot cop shoots himself while giving a lecture on “firearms safety.”](http://youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0) “I’m the only one in this room qualified to use this…BAAAANNNNGGG!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/139 "2008-06-09T22:21:31Z")
Shall we total up the statements made by **Diogenes** that have been refuted in this thread? Note that not once has he said, “OK, good point,” or “OK, I concede my statement was overly broad.” No, he just steamrolls ahead as though the contradiction never appeared, or hand-waves it away. > [@Diogenes in post 71](#): > > Walking around with a gun on your hip like you’re some kind of cowboy is just arrested and childish behavior, and is intended to be intimidating. It serves no other purpose. > [@Me in post 74](#): > > I can give you an example. I had a handgun stolen from the trunk of my car as I was returning from a day at the range and stopped to have a bite to eat. Subsequent to that event, I’ve chosen to wear my gun on my way to and from. > > If I then stop to get gas or a bite to eat along the way, I assure you my intention isn’t to intimidate anyone. It’s to get gas (or food) and keep my firearm secure. * * * > [@Diogenes in post 82](#): > > All open carry is “brandishing,” as far as I’m concerned. > [@Mr. Moto in post 85](#): > > There is a legal definition of brandishing that you’re ignoring - and by doing so you weaken your argument. * * * > [@Diogenes in post 95](#): > > An open display of a firearm anyplace where it would be inappropriate to discharge one (unless carrying a firearm is part of your job) is a death threat. > [@Me](#): > > It’s not a death threat in any legal sense. In your own mind, as a result of your irrational prejudices, it’s a threat. But the numbers don’t bear you out. * * * > [@Diogenes in post 108](#): > > I just think it’s rude and socially maladapted to go around brandishing it at other people’s kids. > [@Chimera in post 113](#): > > No one here has even mentioned brandishing a firearm, let alone at children. > [@Mr. Moto in post 114](#): > > Even leaving legal definitions aside, brandishing involves waving a weapon around threateningly or displaying something ostentatiously - neither of which are quite met by the simple act of carrying around a handgun in a holster. * * * > [@Diogenes in post 127](#): > > And the cop wouldn’t be a cop if he was clumsy with a handgun. > [@Johnny L.A. in post 129](#): > > [three cites of clumsy police accidents with handguns] * * * > [@Diogenes in post 120](#): > > Self-defense is lame excuse. What do you think you’re going to have to defend yourself against at a Starbucks or a restaurant? > [@Johnny L.A. in post 126](#): > > Ever hear of Luby’s Cafeteria? > > [/quote=Diogenes] > So what? People get struck by lightning too. That doesn’t mean it’s anything to seriously worry about. Plus, I am dubious that armed civilians would be able to stop something like this anyway. More bullets flying is not a salve for the situation. Amateurs need to stay out of firefights. > [@Me in post 131](#): > > Especially 70-year-old amateurs? * * * Not really sure why I even bother. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275/140 "2008-06-09T22:23:16Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This was a home invasion. How is it applicable to the discussion of _public_ gun toting? [/QUOTE] It’s applicable to your line about amateurs in gunfights. Or do you somehow contend that an amateur is able to defend himself effectively in his own home, but somehow loses that ability when he crosses his property line? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-carrying-an-exposed-gun-to-everyday-shopping-social-events-ok-manners-wise/452275.md?page=8)