# Is "cashless society" the new great conspiratorial battleground? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2026, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261 "2026-03-06T18:54:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/41 "2026-03-07T06:21:49Z")
That’s an astoundingly stupid article that seems intended only to promote a cybersecurity business. It’s basically saying that since Canada has been at the forefront of adopting electronic payment systems, it’s vulnerable to attacks on electronic payment systems. Sure, and a society that depends heavily on cash is vulnerable to counterfeiters, thefts, and robberies. That doesn’t make them “clueless”. The question is which approach carries the least risk. Yes, there was a major Interac outage a few years ago. AFAIK it resulted in payments being delayed, but no one lost money and the service was, and continues to be, secure and reliable. I have no hesitation in using it. I use it frequently and have had zero problems with it, nor with online bill payment systems. ETA: On the question of how often I go to an actual brick-and-mortar bank, the answer is “almost never”. How often do I go to my actual home branch where I established my accounts? Hah! Haven’t been there in probably at least 20 years. Electrons are wonderful things! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/42 "2026-03-07T06:44:03Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I use it frequently and have had zero problems with it, nor with online bill payment systems. Same here with personal experience of digital transactions, but I’m not complacent enough to think that that means they’re automatically problem-free. “Nothing ever goes wrong” is true right up until it isn’t. [Tens of thousands of taxpayer accounts hacked as CRA repeatedly paid out millions in bogus refunds](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-revenue-agency-taxpayer-accounts-hacked-1.7363440) > [@](#): > > **Agency admits it vastly underreported cyberattacks against Canadian taxpayers to Parliament** > > Imposters used the company’s confidential credentials to get unauthorized access into hundreds of Canadians’ personal CRA accounts, change direct deposit information, submit false returns and pocket more than $6 million in bogus refunds from the public purse […] > > The investigation by _The Fifth Estate_ and Radio-Canada has found that the H&R Block data breach is just one example of many that are overwhelming the CRA, as auditors and investigators worry the public might lose trust in the agency tasked with safeguarding its taxpayer dollars and personal information. > > As the agency scrambles internally to deal with so-called threat actors, _The Fifth Estate_/Radio-Canada investigation has found the public is mostly being kept in the dark about the staggering amounts stolen and the gaping flaws in the agency’s ability to detect fraud. Does this mean that the ordinary commercial transactions of individuals in daily life are automatically compromised and cashless exchange should be abandoned? Of course not. Does it mean that there are real risks in the way that cashless finance is set up, and it behooves consumers to keep a watchful eye on the watchdogs that are supposed to be able to protect them from malfeasance? Yup. Simply feeling smug about how much (undeniably) your country is currently doing than the US when it comes to fiscal and civic responsibility is not an adequate security measure. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/43 "2026-03-07T07:01:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Does this mean that the ordinary commercial transactions of individuals in daily life are automatically compromised and cashless exchange should be abandoned? Of course not. Does it mean that there are real risks in the way that cashless finance is set up, and it behooves consumers to keep a watchful eye on the watchdogs that are supposed to be able to protect them from malfeasance? Yup. Simply feeling smug about how much (undeniably) your country is currently doing than the US when it comes to fiscal and civic responsibility is not an adequate security measure. I agree, and I’m not complacent, nor do I suggest that anyone else should be. As disorganized as I may be, I do periodically review my accounts and credit card statements for any irregularities, and have sometimes found a few, albeit minor, improper charges – and always related to one particular credit card, and never to any bank account. They were always for small amounts and were probably mistakes, and were reversed without question. I feel terrible for people who have had their bank accounts drained by scammers – I know it happens, and it can be devastating and take a long time to resolve. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/44 "2026-03-07T10:48:52Z")
I suppose we need to decouple the conversation of whether a completely cashless society is a good idea (it probably isn’t) from whether it’s a conspiracy by the lizard people to control everyone (which was the tone of my friend’s rant). To play devil’s advocate, society has been moving in the direction of a cashless society for awhile now with credit cards and payment apps like Google Pay and Venmo. For a couple of reasons: - Maintaining and handling physical cash is expensive. - Cash is prone to theft or loss - Digital is super convenient - Digital is safer - if you loose a bag of money or your house burns down with your money under a mattress, your screwed. - You’re already cashless The last one is where I can’t wrap my brain around people’s outrage. Over 80% of point of sale transactions are already cashless. 40% of people don’t use any physical cash in a given week. The only businesses I tend to pay cash for are small eateries that most likely are trying to underpay their taxes or strip clubs. But my day to day transactions and bills are all paid electronically out of accounts where the balances are maintained electronically. > [@wolfpup](#): > > I agree, and I’m not complacent, nor do I suggest that anyone else should be. As disorganized as I may be, I do periodically review my accounts and credit card statements for any irregularities, and have sometimes found a few, albeit minor, improper charges – and always related to one particular credit card, and never to any bank account. They were always for small amounts and were probably mistakes, and were reversed without question. > > I feel terrible for people who have had their bank accounts drained by scammers – I know it happens, and it can be devastating and take a long time to resolve. 1. Those minor charges could just be establishing a link and may be a precursor to a much larger charge. 2. Some years ago we had one of our bank accounts drained of around $40,000. The bank made us whole within ten business days. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/45 "2026-03-07T11:46:39Z")
A tidbit. I visited China for the first time since right before Covid. My friends laughed at me when I said I wanted to change a hundred bucks just in case. Everything was digital via smartphone. You either scanned a bar code, or the merchant scanned your bar code, and within a second or two it went through. Literally, everything. I had no need for cash during the entire visit. Blew my mind actually. FYI, In 2000, I bought my first flat in Shanghai for about USD120k. The transaction had to be done in cash. The largest bill was RMB100 or at the time around USD8. Literally had about one yard worth of RMB100 bills if they were stacked up. It took more than an hour to feed that stack through a money counting machine. And that was the only way to do the transaction 25 years ago. Now, I could to that via the WeChat app on my smartphone. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/46 "2026-03-07T13:15:39Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > This gets pointed out a lot by proponents of paper money. When you go to purchase something, you aren’t technically paying a debt, AIUI, as you don’t take possession of the item until after you pay. But, you may disagree. Yes, that’s the case. When you walk up to the counter with your candy bar, you don’t owe them anything. You have no debt with the store. You’re offering to purchase the item for the price listed on the shelf. Having said that, if you _steal_ the candy bar, get caught, arrested, charged, convicted and are ordered to pay restitution to the store, I assume you’d be able to pay _that_ debt with cash. But, it seems like more hassle than it’s worth for a candy bar. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/47 "2026-03-07T13:19:01Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Unless you have your life savings in $100 bills stuffed in your mattress, isn’t this a concern already? Take cash out of the bank as you need it and spend it however you want. If you’re making cash withdrawals, the bank doesn’t know what you’re spending it on. It creates a pseudo-air gap between the bank and your purchases. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/48 "2026-03-07T13:22:15Z")
Good job trying to re-rail the thread. As to this bit … > [@msmith537](#): > > - You’re already cashless > > The last one is where I can’t wrap my brain around people’s outrage. Over 80% of point of sale transactions are already cashless. 40% of people don’t use any physical cash in a given week. The only businesses I tend to pay cash for are small eateries that most likely are trying to underpay their taxes or strip clubs. But my day to day transactions and bills are all paid electronically out of accounts where the balances are maintained electronically. I’m just like you. I use cash only for tips for things like valets, bellhops, buskers, etc., and that’s it. All other transactions, even ones including tips such as restaurants, are 100% electronic. But there is a vocal minority that have an absolute aversion to not-cash. They may be a small percentage of all transactions by all people, but those people operate very close to 100% cash for all _their_ transactions. Which are the only ones that matter to them. Are they mostly CT-addled idjits worried about lizard people? Yes they are. And society will pry the last of the cash away from them only with a lot of screaming and some violence. ---
**Author:** ![tetranz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@tetranz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tetranz)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/49 "2026-03-07T14:32:09Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > My take? If we are going to be a cashless society, then we should have a government-run electronic payment infrastructure (yes, funded by taxes). Allowing private, for-profit interests to charge me for the privilege of paying for my groceries (or, charging the grocery store for the privilege of accepting digital payment) is a wealth siphon of epic proportions. Yes. I don’t know the details of how it should work but I believe there should be some sort of public payment system. We’re slowly moving to a world “toll collectors” everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/50 "2026-03-07T14:45:08Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > A tidbit. I visited China for the first time since right before Covid. My friends laughed at me when I said I wanted to change a hundred bucks just in case. Everything was digital via smartphone. You either scanned a bar code, or the merchant scanned your bar code, and within a second or two it went through. Literally, everything. I had no need for cash during the entire visit. Blew my mind actually. Isn’t the Chinese government doing their best to control what their people have access to via social media? There’s no possibilty the government is keen on electronic cash because it makes it easier for them to serveil and when necessary control their population? I know that sounds crazy, but when I signed up for Facebook in 2011 I certainly didn’t think through the ramifications social media would have on society. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/51 "2026-03-07T15:01:34Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > If we are going to be a cashless society, then we should have a government-run electronic payment infrastructure (yes, funded by taxes). Allowing private, for-profit interests to charge me for the privilege of paying for my groceries Totally agree with this. It’s the equivalent of the US mint, it’s just a function the government should do for its people. And privacy should be explicitly written into the system in law (not that would help all that much under an administration like this one, but it would at least force them to get an actual warrant for each case like mail or telephone surveillance) I just had to tip a valet at a hotel last week and realized I didn’t have cash, they took a 2 dollar fee off the tip. Which should be criminal! ---
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/52 "2026-03-07T15:03:13Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I just had to tip a valet at a hotel last week and realized I didn’t have cash, they took a 2 dollar fee off the tip. Which should be criminal! That is insane! ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/53 "2026-03-07T15:09:47Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Literally, everything. I had no need for cash during the entire visit. Blew my mind actually Though given the Chinese government’s attitude to the privacy of its citizens this is hardly proof that this has no reprucussions for citizens rights. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/54 "2026-03-07T16:04:16Z")
I’m struggling to decide what your point is and whether you’re being serious or sarcastic. The Chinese payment system isn’t anonymous digital cash. It’s more akin to everybody using debit cards versus some value stored at a bank-like commercial institution. Sorta Paypal on steroids. But with near-universal acceptance by the public, both consumers and businesses. Is all of that surveillable? Yes, of course. Is that handy for both the government and commercial interests running the system? Yes, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/55 "2026-03-07T16:28:01Z")
This battle is already lost. My mom was writing $2 checks for groceries 60 years ago. It’s not like the cashless society and traceable purchases just happened overnight. When you make a cash transaction there are already two people who know about it, which is only a whisper away from everybody knowing. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/56 "2026-03-07T16:48:34Z")
I definitely remember people fretting about this in the 80s when I was in college. Here is an opinion piece from 1968 that is all over the web > **[A Cashless Future Society? (1968) — Paleofuture](https://paleofuture.com/blog/2008/11/18/a-cashless-future-society-1968.html)** > > The July 24, 1968 Las Cruces Sun-News (Las Cruces, NM) ran this piece by Jack Lefler about the possibility of a cashless society that would use a single identification card. NEW YORK (AP) - Want to hunt polar bear in Alaska, entertain your... ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/57 "2026-03-07T17:00:29Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The Chinese payment system isn’t anonymous digital cash. It’s more akin to everybody using debit cards versus some value stored at a bank-like commercial institution. Sorta Paypal on steroids. But with near-universal acceptance by the public, both consumers and businesses. Of course it’s not anoynmous. What I’m suggesting is bad actors, including the government, might be able to use the system to control people which seems like something China would like to do. Maybe you’ve expressed some opinions that displease the government, so the next time you try to buy tickets for a soccer match your card is declined. Maybe they’ve decided you’re too fat, and suddenly you can’t complete that purchase for fried chicken. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/58 "2026-03-07T17:01:26Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > This battle is already lost True. Doesn’t mean it’s not a bad thing that will come back to bite us in a big way. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/59 "2026-03-07T17:11:45Z")
I remember, c. 2003, when debit cards weren’t as big of a thing they are now and I couldn’t get a credit card because of bad credit, I wanted to buy airplane tickets. So I drove to [Capital Airport](https://www.flyspi.com/), walked up to the American Airlines’ regional affiliate counter, and told the agent I wanted two tickets from Here to There on That Date and That Flight. Then I counted out the fee in hundreds and twenties. The agent looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears. Nowadays I rarely even carry cash. I do feel kind of bad about it when I stop by Sonic on the way home to buy ice (NB: Sonic has the best ice for bongs. You’re welcome.). It feels wrong to put a $2.18 charge on my debit card. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2026, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261/60 "2026-03-07T17:17:12Z")
I doubt the Sonic employee cares if you put a $2.18 charge on your debit card, so why would you care? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cashless-society-the-new-great-conspiratorial-battleground/1028261.md?page=4)