# Is censorship of war images immoral? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661 "2003-03-28T00:44:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/1 "2003-03-28T00:44:27Z")
CNN shows you powerfull tanks, sleek F16/18s, B52s, missile launches, green night vision landscapes, video game style laser guided hits, etc… Here is a description a [video footage](http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=391460) aired on Iraq TV: > [@](#): > > A middle-aged man is carried into the hospital in pyjamas, soaked head to foot in blood. A little girl of perhaps four is brought into the operating room on a trolley, staring at a heap of her own intestines protruding from the left side of her stomach. A blue-uniformed doctor pours water over the little girl’s guts and then gently applies a bandage before beginning surgery. A woman in black with what appears to be a stomach wound cries out as doctors try to strip her for surgery. In another sequence, a trail of blood leads from the impact of an incoming – presumably British – shell. Next to the crater is a pair of plastic slippers. Wouldn’t the american people prefer to now WTF is happening ? ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/2 "2003-03-28T01:08:56Z")
What the Hell. Let’s go ahead and stifle all protestations against our POWs being paraded in front of broadcast news cameras, despite well established Geneva Conventions to the contrary. War is Hell. Welcome to Hell. ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/3 "2003-03-28T01:22:28Z")
**Zenster** -\> err… so… is it immoral or not… ? ---
**Author:** ![sezyou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@sezyou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sezyou)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/4 "2003-03-28T01:25:03Z")
We have a right and an obligation to see the carnage that our elected representatives have decided to spend our money on. It is immoral. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/5 "2003-03-28T01:33:24Z")
Not showing these images is wrong. It IS immoral to let people who shouted for war see it as a bloodless “precise” action that’s nothing more than cool explosions. I want America forced to acknowledge the suffering that war causes. I want all of those who were so gung-ho for war to be sickened and horrified at the carnage. I want soccer moms to weep when they see children shredded by bombs. Support the war if you will: I just want people to take a good, long look at the true and ugly price of it. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/6 "2003-03-28T01:43:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > \*\*Not showing these images is wrong. It IS immoral to let people who shouted for war see it as a bloodless “precise” action that’s nothing more than cool explosions. > > I want America forced to acknowledge the suffering that war causes. I want all of those who were so gung-ho for war to be sickened and horrified at the carnage. I want soccer moms to weep when they see children shredded by bombs. > > Support the war if you will: I just want people to take a good, long look at the true and ugly price of it. \*\* The main difference to me , as a Canadian , is that I would rather see the arab population see the end result of years of misguided leadership on their part , rather than having doctors do the same sort of triage on american civillians. Do bear in mind that the casualty count from this war compared to the casualty count from russias little adventure in chechyna will be light years lighter in quantity, but will hopefully horrify sympathetic arab populations to deal through agencies like the UN and what ever replaces it. Otherwise sooner or later we would have had to do a nuclear lay down on the region to pacify it. Declan ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/7 "2003-03-28T01:50:06Z")
In a democracy, the citizens should be fully informed about both the motives and the consequences of the decisions of their leaders. That should definitely apply to the informations released by the government. I’m pissed off that we’re governed by people saying lies and half-truths all the time in order to push their agenda (or to get reelected). Concerning the medias, I believe their job should be to inform the public as honestly as possible. Hence, from my point of view, censoring war images is indeed immoral because it’s misleading and prevent people from knowing the real consequences of political choices. If it lowers the nation’s morale or resolve, then so be it. It only means the nation wasn’t correctly informed or had false expectations before, and that this high morale/resolve was artificial (or even artificially and deliberatly _created_). ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/8 "2003-03-28T01:50:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ChaosGod \* > \*\ ***Zenster** -\> err… so… is it immoral or not… ? \*\* Appropriate restrictions on wartime photo-documentation are entirely justified. The case of Iraq is special. Saddam has purposefully and repeatedly manipulated the media so often and for so long that his credibility should be less than zero. To intentionally air Iraqi State sponsored war-related footage, without prior and independent confirmation of the claims being made therein is irresponsible. Iraq flagrantly flouts the accepted rules of engagement by parading POWs (of any stripe) in front of broadcast cameras. Iraq’s acts are morally reprehensible, not to mention utterly worthy of censure and global condemnation. We’ll (for now) avoid speculation about surrender based attacks, hospital centered military command centers and civilian clothed military personnel. Any questions? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/9 "2003-03-28T02:16:16Z")
I think the footage from Iraqi TV is in and of itself newsworthy because it gives us an idea of what kind of information the Iraqi population is being fed. I’m intelligent enough to understand that Iraqi TV will be biased (just as many people who air their views on TV are biased). If the networks wish to run disclaimers that the information is unverified, or bring in experts to discuss why the videos might be doctored, even better. But to just ignore the footage is stifling the “free-flow of information” that’s supposed to make our society great. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/10 "2003-03-28T02:17:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Declan \* > \*\*The main difference to me , as a Canadian , is that I would rather see the arab population see the end result of years of misguided leadership on their part , rather than having doctors do the same sort of triage on american civillians. > > Do bear in mind that the casualty count from this war compared to the casualty count from russias little adventure in chechyna will be light years lighter in quantity, but will hopefully horrify sympathetic arab populations to deal through agencies like the UN and what ever replaces it. Otherwise sooner or later we would have had to do a nuclear lay down on the region to pacify it. > > Declan \*\* Errr … don’t you mean “later than sooner?” (Sorry to misquote.) Or am I horribly misguided as to your intentions? Howevermuch I might agree with your sentiments, nuclear aggression anywhere, is the most horrid of choices. ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/11 "2003-03-28T02:26:15Z")
**Zenster** -\> Take a [look](http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/gulfwar2/) at some of the people that Mr. Bush has already “liberated”. Some of those are US and British soldiers who are also now “free” from Mr.Bush and Mr. Blair’s bullshit. Boy, that Iraq TV sure is deceiving. War doesn’t look that cool up close. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/12 "2003-03-28T02:51:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\*Errr … don’t you mean “later than sooner?” (Sorry to misquote.) Or am I horribly misguided as to your intentions? Howevermuch I might agree with your sentiments, nuclear aggression anywhere, is the most horrid of choices. \*\* Apology accepted , alough i am a bit muddled about why you would choose to anchor your response based on a turn of phrase. I would like to know more about your thinking ,before I would give a clarification of response. Declan ---
**Author:** ![serenitynow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@serenitynow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/serenitynow)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/13 "2003-03-28T02:53:56Z")
I wrote a rather caustic response to this, but deleted it in the interests of propriety. Instead, I have a few questions, so I can understand where those who think we need to see more carnage are coming from. 1. Is the immorality not showing the whole picture of what is happening? 2. If the answer to number 1 is yes, then should we also show videos of the woman who was hanged for waving to allied military? Should we show people’s tongues being cut out? Should we show a three year old girl being gunned down arbitrarily by an Iraqi soldier? 3. If the answer to numbers 1 and 2 is not the same, then why not? 4. What is the purpose of showing the carnage? 5. Please explain the moral principal that is being violated by not showing the footage in question. As an aside, the media did show the results of the market bombing, which now appears to have been the work of the Iraqis, not the allies. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/14 "2003-03-28T02:59:18Z")
Yes, we should show all the footage (both of Iraqi atrocities and from state-run Iraqi TV). I vaguely remember the picture of the firefighter carrying that dead little girl from the Oklahoma City bomb blast. That photo was shown everywhere, and it was pretty horrific (IIRC). I don’t see why that stuff can be shown, and we can’t see the suffering of the Iraqis so we can make better informed decisions. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/15 "2003-03-28T03:12:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by serenitynow \* > \*\* > > 1. If the answer to number 1 is yes, then should we also show videos of the woman who was hanged for waving to allied military? Should we show people’s tongues being cut out? Should we show a three year old girl being gunned down arbitrarily by an Iraqi soldier? > \*\* Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/16 "2003-03-28T03:16:20Z")
**serenitynow** -\> I understand what you mean. Well, yes,… I’d like to know EVERYTHING thats going on. US and Iraqui casualties. If a woman was hanged for waving at the troops, let me SEE it, not just hear about it. If the shelling of towns produce mutilation and death, let me SEE it. I need to SEE. I can’t trust Saddam. I can’t trust Bush. PS: The Iraquis are shooting missiles at themselves and cutting their own water supply. Sounds like the U.S is facing an army of stooges. Those military press briefings are hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![serenitynow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@serenitynow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/serenitynow)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/17 "2003-03-28T03:39:10Z")
ChaosGod, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I take it that you are saying that you want to see everything because you do not believe Bush or Hussein, and seeing would let you know the truth? Is that accurate? If so, how does seeing prove anything? Of course, the Iraqis will say the woman was hung for killing her four children. If they show pictures of people who are killed, how does that show who killed them or tell the entire story? You know that civilians are dying as a result of the war. Some because of allied forces, some (and undoubtedly more) because of the Iraqi regime. Does seeing pictures tell you something more than what you already know? If you can’t trust Bush or Hussein, what does that have to do with trusting CNN or Fox or NBC or ABC, etc? Unlike Iraq, the US media has not been restricted by the government in what they report (other than the obvious requirement that embedded media not give away operational details.) > [@](#): > > PS: The Iraquis are shooting missiles at themselves and cutting their own water supply. Sounds like the U.S is facing an army of stooges. The Iraqi regime is not shooting missles at itself or cutting off its water supply. It sees the Iraqi people as pawns, and killing or harming them is an insignificance. The missle is a question still to be answered, but there is no doubt the regime cut off a major part of the water supply in Basra. Saddam cannot win militarily, so he has to hope that the US will give up if the civilian and allied military death count gets high. They are not all stooges, just heartless. ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/18 "2003-03-28T04:55:49Z")
If I see a girl with her [legs torn off](http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/gulfwar2/) , then I will definitely KNOW that a little girl’s legs have been torn off. I therefore have _more_ information than if I hadn’t seen this. I could then listen to one theory that says that one of the thousands of U.S smart bombs raining on Baghdad was the cause. Another theory says a misguided Iraqi surface-air missile did it. I could then try to figure out who’s trying to bullshit me. I’m pretty sure the little girl could care no less. But I’d know for sure that this was a consequence of this war. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/19 "2003-03-28T05:25:37Z")
What if Iraq declare the POW’s they have ‘unlawful combatants’ of an unlawful war, as they have threatened? Then in that vein, they are right to parade them around. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661/20 "2003-03-28T05:36:45Z")
I’ve seen photos from the last war that were taken by a US soldier who fought in it. These were _not_ the kind of photos the press in the US would run. Pictures of Iraqi soldiers reduced to what literally looked like a pile of dog food, except for the human limbs sticking out of it, body parts scattered and burned, a uniform intact and unscathed, unlike the remains of the body it once held. Frankly, I can’t even begin to describe the images. If you’ve ever seen the photo of the Japanese soldier in the back of the truck that had been napalmed, you have only the barest idea of what these pictures were like. They didn’t change my mind about the last war (I was _against_ it), nor upon reflection, do they change my opinion about this war (I’m _for_ it). I don’t think that such images should be censored, nor do I think that they should be blasted across our TV screens every fifteen minutes. They should be available for people to view, but I don’t think that they’ll serve any meaningful purpose in debate, just like the photos of aborted fetuses don’t add anything to debates on abortion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-censorship-of-war-images-immoral/164661.md?page=2)